Somthing to raise Dr. T's Blood Pressure

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Aresen
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Somthing to raise Dr. T's Blood Pressure

Post by Aresen » 09 Nov 2012, 10:55

Another Bush running for office. (Son of Jeb, if I read the article correctly.)
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Ayn_Randian
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Re: Somthing to raise Dr. T's Blood Pressure

Post by Ayn_Randian » 09 Nov 2012, 11:03

Aresen wrote:Another Bush running for office. (Son of Jeb, if I read the article correctly.)
Can't be. Republicans are notoriously white and racist, or so I am told.
It has the effect of making me want desperately to do the opposite of what Green Day is suggesting I should want to do. Billy Joe Whassname may have created a generation of war mongers. - Jason L

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Re: Somthing to raise Dr. T's Blood Pressure

Post by Warren » 09 Nov 2012, 11:11

Aresen wrote:Another Bush running for office. (Son of Jeb, if I read the article correctly.)
Being born a Bush doesn't automatically make you a scumbag.
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Re: Somthing to raise Dr. T's Blood Pressure

Post by Warren » 09 Nov 2012, 11:18

Ayn_Randian wrote:
Aresen wrote:Another Bush running for office. (Son of Jeb, if I read the article correctly.)
Can't be. Republicans are notoriously white and racist, or so I am told.
What makes you think he's a Republican?
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Re: Somthing to raise Dr. T's Blood Pressure

Post by Ayn_Randian » 09 Nov 2012, 11:22

Warren wrote:
Ayn_Randian wrote:
Aresen wrote:Another Bush running for office. (Son of Jeb, if I read the article correctly.)
Can't be. Republicans are notoriously white and racist, or so I am told.
What makes you think he's a Republican?
Not sure if serious.

Hispanic Republicans of Texas.
It has the effect of making me want desperately to do the opposite of what Green Day is suggesting I should want to do. Billy Joe Whassname may have created a generation of war mongers. - Jason L

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Re: Somthing to raise Dr. T's Blood Pressure

Post by Kolohe » 09 Nov 2012, 11:36

Meh, there's a Kennedy again in Congress starting in January.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Re: Somthing to raise Dr. T's Blood Pressure

Post by Warren » 09 Nov 2012, 11:39

Kolohe wrote:Meh, there's a Kennedy again in Congress starting in January.
Oh fuck. Now that IS a problem. Joseph Kennedy made a deal with the devil and his descendants are cursed for seven generations.
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Re: Somthing to raise Dr. T's Blood Pressure

Post by Aresen » 09 Nov 2012, 11:41

Warren wrote:
Kolohe wrote:Meh, there's a Kennedy again in Congress starting in January.
Oh fuck. Now that IS a problem. Joseph Kennedy made a deal with the devil and his descendants are America is cursed for seven generations.
Fixed.

ETA:
Warren wrote:Being born a Bush doesn't automatically make you a scumbag.
I am referring to the whole notion of dynastic succession.
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Re: Somthing to raise Dr. T's Blood Pressure

Post by thoreau » 09 Nov 2012, 11:54

Fuckitty fuckken fuck.
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Re: Somthing to raise Dr. T's Blood Pressure

Post by Mo » 09 Nov 2012, 13:16

Ayn_Randian wrote:Can't be. Republicans are notoriously white and racist, or so I am told.
I guess I hallucinated one of the highest rated conservatives lamenting that the white establishment runs the show and black and brown people voting in numbers means traditional America is over. It would be one thing if any Republican of note called out O'RLY on his race baiting bullshit, but no one did.
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Re: Somthing to raise Dr. T's Blood Pressure

Post by Jennifer » 09 Nov 2012, 13:31

I've been enjoying the Republican meltdown -- Rush Limbaugh publicly mourning that he and his ilk are "outnumbered" -- but the tiny, stubbornly optimistic part of me hopes that maybe, FINALLY, this will convince the GOP to jettison all of its culture-war bullshit, quit sucking up to the religious right and realize that if it wants to beat the Democrats it has to offer an actual alternative other than "We hate/fear the same Americans you do."

Though the possible resurrection of the Bush and Kennedy dynasties tempers my optimism just a tad.
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Re: Somthing to raise Dr. T's Blood Pressure

Post by Jennifer » 09 Nov 2012, 13:33

Or, to put it another way: maybe the GOP is finally waking up to the fact that "women, non-whites, gays and believers in science" are voters to be courted, not threats to campaign against.
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Re: Somthing to raise Dr. T's Blood Pressure

Post by thoreau » 09 Nov 2012, 13:43

Jennifer wrote:Though the possible resurrection of the Bush and Kennedy dynasties tempers my optimism just a tad.
Dynasties are elite, and not terribly invested in culture war except as strategy. They aren't true believers, for the most part.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Re: Somthing to raise Dr. T's Blood Pressure

Post by Mo » 09 Nov 2012, 13:46

Pappy Bush is hated on the right precisely because he never bought into or cared for the culture war. He is easily the most underrated prez of my lifetime.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: Somthing to raise Dr. T's Blood Pressure

Post by thoreau » 09 Nov 2012, 13:50

Mo wrote:Pappy Bush is hated on the right precisely because he never bought into or cared for the culture war. He is easily the most underrated prez of my lifetime.
I think I agree with this, largely.

I still hate him for not using a condom, but by the standards of the Presidents in my lifetime, I agree that in retrospect he is near the top. I think I rate Clinton higher because he had a good thing and didn't screw it up (that's an important trait, I maintain), but Pappy comes in pretty high still.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Re: Somthing to raise Dr. T's Blood Pressure

Post by thoreau » 09 Nov 2012, 13:53

As long as we're rating Presidents, I would argue that Bush The Lesser and Ronald Reagan have been the most consequential Presidents, for good or for ill. Love them or hate them (I hate them), but they left legacies.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Re: Somthing to raise Dr. T's Blood Pressure

Post by Warren » 09 Nov 2012, 14:07

Jennifer wrote:Or, to put it another way: maybe the GOP is finally waking up to the fact that "women, non-whites, gays and believers in science" are voters to be courted, not threats to campaign against.
Well I don't see any evidence of this yet. But I think there's strong pressure for it. Just like the Dems had to rethink their whole "Blame the rich, big government FTW" after Reagan. But in spite of a highly successful Clinton administration, built on a centrist "It's the economy stupid", they've jumped all the way back to LBJ era rhetoric/policies. And the rhetoric leave no room for hope. The Chosen One constantly goes on about how we tried free market capitalism and that's how we got into this mess.
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Re: Somthing to raise Dr. T's Blood Pressure

Post by Aresen » 09 Nov 2012, 14:11

My rating of Presidents in my lifetime:

1) Eisenhower.
2) Ford
3) Bush 1
4) Reagan
5) Clinton
6) Kennedy
7) Carter
8) Johnson
9) Bush 2
10) Nixon

Obama: Unrated. Presently standing between Kennedy and Carter.

[I'd actually put Eisenhower first and then about 5 blanks before the next one.]
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Re: Somthing to raise Dr. T's Blood Pressure

Post by thoreau » 09 Nov 2012, 14:12

Warren wrote:The Chosen One constantly goes on about how we tried free market capitalism and that's how we got into this mess.
I can't quite figure out who's more invested in persuading the American people that the GOP stands for free-market capitalism: Republicans trying to court voters, or Democrats trying to scare voters.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Re: Somthing to raise Dr. T's Blood Pressure

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 09 Nov 2012, 14:18

thoreau wrote:As long as we're rating Presidents, I would argue that Bush The Lesser and Ronald Reagan have been the most consequential Presidents, for good or for ill. Love them or hate them (I hate them), but they left legacies.
I understand some will argue he was too long ago, but in my lifetime that dubious award would definitely go to LBJ.

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Re: Somthing to raise Dr. T's Blood Pressure

Post by Jennifer » 09 Nov 2012, 14:23

Warren wrote:
Jennifer wrote:Or, to put it another way: maybe the GOP is finally waking up to the fact that "women, non-whites, gays and believers in science" are voters to be courted, not threats to campaign against.
Well I don't see any evidence of this yet.
I dunno. Based on things like O'RLY mourning the loss of "traditional America" or Limbaugh wailing "we're outnumbered" -- I think it's finally starting to sink in. (And, after all, you have to work through "denial" long before you get to "acceptance.")

I was honestly amazed by the mini-rush of stories about Romney that broke in the aftermath of election -- he'd already made arrangements for a victory fireworks celebration over Boston Harbor (which would've been a dick move, since he knew there's no way he's win Massachusetts even if he DID win), he's arranged for his campaign website to automatically switch over to a "president-elect" website; he wrote a victory speech but never bothered preparing a concession speech in advance. He really, seriously did NOT EVEN CONSIDER anything other than "Oh, yeah, I've got this election in the bag." A lot of the GOP seemed to have lived in a similarly deluded bubble these past few months -- many still seem astounded by the fact that none of their rape-guy candidates won. I mean, wow, who'd'a thunk that large numbers of voters -- even male voters -- would look askance at guys with a weird compulsion to talk about rape and why women who get pregnant that way need to suck up and bear the babies and if not they're evil immoral sluts?
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Re: Somthing to raise Dr. T's Blood Pressure

Post by Jennifer » 09 Nov 2012, 14:31

Forgot my main point re my last post: all that makes me even gladder these guys didn't win. Even if I agreed with their policies, I do NOT want power in the hands of people incapable of distinguishing "what I want to happen" from "what I expect to happen."
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Re: Somthing to raise Dr. T's Blood Pressure

Post by Kolohe » 09 Nov 2012, 14:34

Both Rush today and Levin last night were touting this person: http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/mac_donald.htm (Levin had her on his show) with the thesis that "Immigration policy doesn't really matter all that much for the Hispanic vote, Hispanics vote for the Democrat Party because they Want Free Stuff". That Conservatives still need to hold fast to their preferred immigration policy (no amnesty, close the border), and they they shouldn't listen to Democrats who are concern trolling, nor 'Beltway' or moderate Republicans because they lost too.

And with the quite clear subtext, almost rising to the level of text, that Conservatives/Republicans should basically write off the Hispanic vote the way they do the Black vote, because they're never going to get their votes anyway. Because them, like Women, just want free stuff.
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Re: Somthing to raise Dr. T's Blood Pressure

Post by Hugh Akston » 09 Nov 2012, 14:42

Kolohe wrote:Both Rush today and Levin last night were touting this person: http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/mac_donald.htm (Levin had her on his show) with the thesis that "Immigration policy doesn't really matter all that much for the Hispanic vote, Hispanics vote for the Democrat Party because they Want Free Stuff". That Conservatives still need to hold fast to their preferred immigration policy (no amnesty, close the border), and they they shouldn't listen to Democrats who are concern trolling, nor 'Beltway' or moderate Republicans because they lost too.

And with the quite clear subtext, almost rising to the level of text, that Conservatives/Republicans should basically write off the Hispanic vote the way they do the Black vote, because they're never going to get their votes anyway. Because them, like Women, just want free stuff.
Rosen read Krauthammer's column on the air today, basically saying that Messicans are a natural GOP constitchency if Red can just get over their Brown Terror. He's right about that, but his solution of "strong border enforcement/Amnesty if you already made it" kinda misses the point that, to a large extent, Mexicans want to come here for a while, make some money, and then go back to Mexico. The people who want to stay here and vote for Republicans will do so if they don't see their family members being deported/raped by coyotes as a result of US border policy.
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Re: Somthing to raise Dr. T's Blood Pressure

Post by Jennifer » 09 Nov 2012, 14:44

Kolohe wrote:Both Rush today and Levin last night were touting this person: http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/mac_donald.htm (Levin had her on his show) with the thesis that "Immigration policy doesn't really matter all that much for the Hispanic vote, Hispanics vote for the Democrat Party because they Want Free Stuff". That Conservatives still need to hold fast to their preferred immigration policy (no amnesty, close the border), and they they shouldn't listen to Democrats who are concern trolling, nor 'Beltway' or moderate Republicans because they lost too.

And with the quite clear subtext, almost rising to the level of text, that Conservatives/Republicans should basically write off the Hispanic vote the way they do the Black vote, because they're never going to get their votes anyway. Because them, like Women, just want free stuff.
I'm not familiar with Levin, but Limbaugh's goal is getting listeners, NOT doing what's best for the GOP or USA.

But, who knows? Perhaps I AM being too optimistic, and the GOP's 2016 campaign will indeed be based on the assumption "We lost in 2012 because we didn't spend ENOUGH time screeching about gays, science and dog-whistle racism." Except the demographics are going to be even worse for the GOP next time around -- more of today's crusty old bigots dead of old age, more of today's young Hispanics and gays and secularists aged into voterhood.
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