We need a new word for that

User avatar
Shem
Posts: 8367
Joined: 27 Apr 2010, 00:27

Re: We need a new word for that

Post by Shem »

Dangerman wrote:
Shem wrote:
Highway wrote:
Eric the .5b wrote:I know I dislike talking of Duane as "My mom's boyfriend", especially given how long they've been together and have lived together.
See? Koibito!
NO. No Japanese loan words. No. I refuse to spend years hearing neckbeards lecture me about why I fail to grasp the nuances of the term while they call themselves a title popularized for pedophile-murderers. That well is poisoned.
Now I'm curious...
It's otaku, which is worn as a mark of pride by American anime fans, despite the fact that it was coined in a lolicon magazine to refer to socially awkward fans of anime and manga, and became popular in the larger media because of its connection with Tsutomi Miyazaki, the Otaku Murder, who murdered and raped (note the order, there) 4 preteen girls. I mean, you can call yourself that without a hint of irony, but doing so kind of suggests you're not the expert on Japanese culture that a lot of the more annoying fans hold themselves out as being.
"VOTE SHEMOCRACY! You will only have to do it once!" -Loyalty Officer Aresen

User avatar
GinSlinger
Posts: 3624
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 20:49
Location: Here today, gone tomorrow

Re: We need a new word for that

Post by GinSlinger »

dbcooper wrote:"Closest friend" seems ok with me.
I have a closest/dearest friend. He's part of the set of close/dear friends (6, 4 of whom are all close with each other). The next group are friends at about twelve or so people. Then close acquaintances at about twenty five or so and including some of you here whether you know it or not. Then the groups stop overlapping as well, as colleagues, family, associates, and "people I know" come next.

The twelve or so friends I have now are by far and away the most friends I've ever had. I feel like the social media lumping of all peoples as "friends" (looking at you FB) confusing, and liked Google's Circles, even if G+ hasn't caught on as much more than long-form Twitter.

I don't like calling my wife my "partner," as I typically read "partner" as code for something different. I've used it, and am usually struck later by the fact that I've normally known to use it around people who have "partners" even if I didn't consciously realize they were gay.

As for predicting a poor quality thread from the title, I propose "foreshit." As in, "the title of that thread foreshit its content."

User avatar
Jennifer
Posts: 25742
Joined: 28 Apr 2010, 14:03

Re: We need a new word for that

Post by Jennifer »

Is there a word or expression to cover the thought "This is a situation where being wasteful actually if thriftier than conservation" or something to that effect? For example: a few years ago, our old DVD player broke, and getting it repaired would've cost $57, plus we'd have had to wait six weeks to get it back. But we could buy a new DVD player -- exact same make and model and everything -- for $60, only three bucks more, so we chose to do that.

Or, a more recent and arguably better example: a lot of the LED lanterns and flashlights you buy these days -- and things like my solar-powered LED garden lights with rechargeable batteries -- not only come with batteries included, but when those batteries die, you often find out that merely replacing the battery alone costs more money than just buying a brand-new flashlight or lantern or whatever with new batteries installed. So, what "should" be the thrifty option -- make do with what I have already, rather than buy a new replacement -- often turns out to be the money-wasting option instead. Is there a word for that?
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

User avatar
Highway
Posts: 13790
Joined: 12 May 2011, 00:22
Location: the Electric Ocean

Re: We need a new word for that

Post by Highway »

The phrase is "Thinking too hard about it." Also "The miracles of modern manufacturing and retail supply chains."
"Sharks do not go around challenging people to games of chance like dojo breakers."

User avatar
Jennifer
Posts: 25742
Joined: 28 Apr 2010, 14:03

Re: We need a new word for that

Post by Jennifer »

Highway wrote:The phrase is "Thinking too hard about it." Also "The miracles of modern manufacturing and retail supply chains."
Neither of which work for writing a professional hooray-for-frugality column so I'll repeat the question (alongside the repeated disclaimer "Nobody is ever required to respond to my comments if they bore you, and for those who feel compelled to respond despite their utter lack of interest, there are therapists who could maybe help you with that"): does anyone know of a word or phrase to describe those situations where "frugality" is actually the more wasteful option? Or has anyone a proposal for one?
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

User avatar
JD
Posts: 12043
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:26

Re: We need a new word for that

Post by JD »

"Penny wise, pound foolish"?
I sort of feel like a sucker about aspiring to be intellectually rigorous when I could just go on twitter and say capitalism causes space herpes and no one will challenge me on it. - Hugh Akston

User avatar
Kolohe
Posts: 14558
Joined: 06 May 2010, 10:51

Re: We need a new word for that

Post by Kolohe »

'False economy' may work as well, but probably should be explained using the example you just did.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

User avatar
Number 6
Posts: 3332
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 16:41

Re: We need a new word for that

Post by Number 6 »

Proflifrugality?
" i discovered you eat dog dicks out of a bowl marked "dog dicks" because you're too stupid to remember where you left your bowl of dog dicks."-dhex, of course.
"Come, let us go forth and not rape together"-Jadagul

User avatar
Jennifer
Posts: 25742
Joined: 28 Apr 2010, 14:03

Re: We need a new word for that

Post by Jennifer »

JD wrote:"Penny wise, pound foolish"?
Hmm. Sounds good at first, but I think that's actually more in reference to "Vimes boots" scenarios: buying the cheap, low-quality thing might cost less money now, but in the long run, it's cheaper to spend more money up front for the more expensive, high-quality thing. Or, paying more money upfront for the Giant Economy Size can of food is cheaper in the long run than buying smaller cans of food: $5 for the 50-ounce GES is indeed a lower price than paying $1 for a five-ounce Single Serving.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

User avatar
Jennifer
Posts: 25742
Joined: 28 Apr 2010, 14:03

Re: We need a new word for that

Post by Jennifer »

Huh, and once again I see that when I post a comment, the preview does NOT show me that other comments have gone up in the meanwhile! Didn't see where Kolohe and Number 6 responded and I didn't mean to ignore you guys; I'm thinking, actually, that "false economy" might work unless/until something more precise comes along. It is indeed "false" in the sense that the old-school common-sense idea -- "Keeping my old flashlight and switching the battery must be cheaper than buying a brand-new identical flashlight and battery, right?" -- does indeed turn out to be entirely false, when you check the actual prices.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

User avatar
Ayn_Randian
Posts: 10727
Joined: 08 May 2010, 14:58

Re: We need a new word for that

Post by Ayn_Randian »

False economy is probably too politically loaded, especially after the CDS-related meltdown.
It has the effect of making me want desperately to do the opposite of what Green Day is suggesting I should want to do. Billy Joe Whassname may have created a generation of war mongers. - Jason L

User avatar
Highway
Posts: 13790
Joined: 12 May 2011, 00:22
Location: the Electric Ocean

Re: We need a new word for that

Post by Highway »

I think you're searching too hard for a short phrase. The point is that "common sense" is based on false assumptions. I'd go with "false assumptions" before "false economy" which I think means something completely different (you thought you were actually saving money, but you weren't, rather than you assumed that one thing would be cheaper to buy than another). I know that you're space limited, but to get the point across, you should probably explain it in two sentences like you did up there, rather than shoehorning the idea into a phrase that doesn't really fit.
"Sharks do not go around challenging people to games of chance like dojo breakers."

User avatar
D.A. Ridgely
Posts: 20210
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:09
Location: The Other Side

Re: We need a new word for that

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Back when appliances cost more in real terms, customers didn't expect there would be a "new and improved" version available in a few years and the things themselves were more mechanical than electronic, fix-it shops could make a living. Except for major appliances one intends to keep five to ten years or more, none of that is the case any longer.

DVD players are electro-mechanical devices but whether the fault lies in the electronics or the mechanics of the device, the labor required to open, check, fix, close and test it is substantially greater than the labor required to build it. The point here being that you shouldn't complain about repair costs being prohibitively high, you should be delighted that acquisition costs are so low.

I can't imagine buying any flashlight for which the battery was almost as expensive except maybe a loss-leader flashlight specifically intended to lure customers to buy the battery that is "included." I suppose if you buy AAA or AA batteries two or four at a time that might occasionally be the case, but buying them 20 at a time at Sam's Club or Costco drives the unit price way down and we haven't found a shelf life problem with such purchases.

User avatar
JasonL
Posts: 25448
Joined: 05 May 2010, 17:22

Re: We need a new word for that

Post by JasonL »

Yeah, false economy invokes a misleading image to me. It is more a case of false assumptions or bad intuitions or something.

User avatar
Kolohe
Posts: 14558
Joined: 06 May 2010, 10:51

Re: We need a new word for that

Post by Kolohe »

Ayn_Randian wrote:False economy is probably too politically loaded, especially after the CDS-related meltdown.
false economy != fake economy (and uses two-o different definitions of the word economy)

Though maybe you're right and this is another QOC (Quarks of Color) case.
JasonL wrote:Yeah, false economy invokes a misleading image to me. It is more a case of false assumptions or bad intuitions or something.
But isn't that exactly what we're talking about here? The intuition of repairing something and putting it back into service is cheaper than buying a new one? That intuition isn't always correct (especially in this day and age) Heck there are nearly entire TV networks dedicated to that intuition. (and that very often hide the 'true' cost - i.e. there's a reason most 'rehabs' are actually tear down and rebuilds vice actual rehabs. But rehabs of course make better TV).
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

User avatar
Highway
Posts: 13790
Joined: 12 May 2011, 00:22
Location: the Electric Ocean

Re: We need a new word for that

Post by Highway »

D.A. Ridgely wrote:I can't imagine buying any flashlight for which the battery was almost as expensive except maybe a loss-leader flashlight specifically intended to lure customers to buy the battery that is "included." I suppose if you buy AAA or AA batteries two or four at a time that might occasionally be the case, but buying them 20 at a time at Sam's Club or Costco drives the unit price way down and we haven't found a shelf life problem with such purchases.
This is exactly the case for lantern battery flashlights. It is the same price or cheaper to buy a new cheap plastic LED flashlight with a 6v lantern battery than to buy that same 6v lantern battery separately.

ETA: So even if you have a 'good' flashlight that needs a lantern battery, you're spending less out of pocket to buy the battery that comes with a flashlight.
"Sharks do not go around challenging people to games of chance like dojo breakers."

User avatar
D.A. Ridgely
Posts: 20210
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:09
Location: The Other Side

Re: We need a new word for that

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Kolohe wrote:[
But isn't that exactly what we're talking about here? The intuition of repairing something and putting it back into service is cheaper than buying a new one? That intuition isn't always correct (especially in this day and age) Heck there are nearly entire TV networks dedicated to that intuition. (and that very often hide the 'true' cost - i.e. there's a reason most 'rehabs' are actually tear down and rebuilds vice actual rehabs. But rehabs of course make better TV).
Well, yeah, except that some people would really rather live in a rehabed old house than a new one even if it turned out to be more expensive. Witness, e.g., Old Town Alexandria townhouses. There are appliances and such that occasionally fall into that category, too, but they tend to be bona fide antiques such as old time tube radios and solid chrome toasters and such. For the most part, the "extended warranty" they try to sell you for anything these days is a good measure of how long the thing is likely to last; namely, a day or two after the extended warranty would have expired.

User avatar
JasonL
Posts: 25448
Joined: 05 May 2010, 17:22

Re: We need a new word for that

Post by JasonL »

Can we call it the Lexmarkification of goods?

User avatar
Jennifer
Posts: 25742
Joined: 28 Apr 2010, 14:03

Re: We need a new word for that

Post by Jennifer »

D.A. Ridgely wrote: I can't imagine buying any flashlight for which the battery was almost as expensive except maybe a loss-leader flashlight specifically intended to lure customers to buy the battery that is "included." I suppose if you buy AAA or AA batteries two or four at a time that might occasionally be the case, but buying them 20 at a time at Sam's Club or Costco drives the unit price way down and we haven't found a shelf life problem with such purchases.
I haven't seen such a thing with alkaline-battery products, but for LED light products with the lithium "button" batteries, definitely. And on some thread here a couple months ago I reported how surprised I was to learn that for my inexpensive solar-powered decorative garden lights -- the kind you buy in packs of three, batteries included -- the cost of buying a pack of three replacement solar-powered rechargeable batteries is more than the cost to just buy another three-pack of garden lights with batteries installed.
DVD players are electro-mechanical devices but whether the fault lies in the electronics or the mechanics of the device, the labor required to open, check, fix, close and test it is substantially greater than the labor required to build it. The point here being that you shouldn't complain about repair costs being prohibitively high, you should be delighted that acquisition costs are so low.
I am, but I'm not one of those who mistakenly cling to once-frugal, now money-wasting, ideas like "Be thrifty by fixing what you have rather than replacing it!" or "Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without!"

In Huxley's Brave New World, they said "ending is better than mending." But he clearly intended this as a bad thing, so I won't mention it in my piece.
Last edited by Jennifer on 28 May 2014, 11:04, edited 1 time in total.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

User avatar
Warren
Posts: 29847
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: We need a new word for that

Post by Warren »

Highway wrote:
D.A. Ridgely wrote:I can't imagine buying any flashlight for which the battery was almost as expensive except maybe a loss-leader flashlight specifically intended to lure customers to buy the battery that is "included." I suppose if you buy AAA or AA batteries two or four at a time that might occasionally be the case, but buying them 20 at a time at Sam's Club or Costco drives the unit price way down and we haven't found a shelf life problem with such purchases.
This is exactly the case for lantern battery flashlights. It is the same price or cheaper to buy a new cheap plastic LED flashlight with a 6v lantern battery than to buy that same 6v lantern battery separately.

ETA: So even if you have a 'good' flashlight that needs a lantern battery, you're spending less out of pocket to buy the battery that comes with a flashlight.
When it comes to batteries, I'll pay a premium for longer life. Even if it means I'm paying more per milliwatt-hour. When it comes to flashlights, my main concern is that the On/Off switch and contacts be reliable and not drop voltage. A disposable flashlight might improve that because you throw it away before it has a chance to oxidize.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT

User avatar
D.A. Ridgely
Posts: 20210
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:09
Location: The Other Side

Re: We need a new word for that

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

Highway wrote:
D.A. Ridgely wrote:I can't imagine buying any flashlight for which the battery was almost as expensive except maybe a loss-leader flashlight specifically intended to lure customers to buy the battery that is "included." I suppose if you buy AAA or AA batteries two or four at a time that might occasionally be the case, but buying them 20 at a time at Sam's Club or Costco drives the unit price way down and we haven't found a shelf life problem with such purchases.
This is exactly the case for lantern battery flashlights. It is the same price or cheaper to buy a new cheap plastic LED flashlight with a 6v lantern battery than to buy that same 6v lantern battery separately.

ETA: So even if you have a 'good' flashlight that needs a lantern battery, you're spending less out of pocket to buy the battery that comes with a flashlight.
Yes, come to think of it, that's true. I think they used to be 9v batteries, though, when I was a kid. The nearly square ones you'd get for science projects. I had the more high tech flashlights in mind at first.

User avatar
Highway
Posts: 13790
Joined: 12 May 2011, 00:22
Location: the Electric Ocean

Re: We need a new word for that

Post by Highway »

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
Highway wrote:
D.A. Ridgely wrote:I can't imagine buying any flashlight for which the battery was almost as expensive except maybe a loss-leader flashlight specifically intended to lure customers to buy the battery that is "included." I suppose if you buy AAA or AA batteries two or four at a time that might occasionally be the case, but buying them 20 at a time at Sam's Club or Costco drives the unit price way down and we haven't found a shelf life problem with such purchases.
This is exactly the case for lantern battery flashlights. It is the same price or cheaper to buy a new cheap plastic LED flashlight with a 6v lantern battery than to buy that same 6v lantern battery separately.

ETA: So even if you have a 'good' flashlight that needs a lantern battery, you're spending less out of pocket to buy the battery that comes with a flashlight.
Yes, come to think of it, that's true. I think they used to be 9v batteries, though, when I was a kid. The nearly square ones you'd get for science projects. I had the more high tech flashlights in mind at first.
Yeah, I think they did used to be 9v batteries, and a significantly larger size. The ones now are about 2" per side, and I remember them being a good 3.5" per side before.
"Sharks do not go around challenging people to games of chance like dojo breakers."

User avatar
Aresen
Posts: 17048
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 20:18
Location: Great White Pacific Northwest

Re: We need a new word for that

Post by Aresen »

Jennifer wrote:
JD wrote:"Penny wise, pound foolish"?
Hmm. Sounds good at first, but I think that's actually more in reference to "Vimes boots" scenarios: buying the cheap, low-quality thing might cost less money now, but in the long run, it's cheaper to spend more money up front for the more expensive, high-quality thing. Or, paying more money upfront for the Giant Economy Size can of food is cheaper in the long run than buying smaller cans of food: $5 for the 50-ounce GES is indeed a lower price than paying $1 for a five-ounce Single Serving.
"Penny wise, pound foolish" covers it. The phrase has always referred to situations where doing something cheaply would cost more in the long run.

"False economy" is a little broader and, as Randian notes, has taken on political connotations nowadays when defenders of a program claim that cutting it will cost more than keeping it.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

User avatar
Shem
Posts: 8367
Joined: 27 Apr 2010, 00:27

Re: We need a new word for that

Post by Shem »

Throwing good money after bad?
"VOTE SHEMOCRACY! You will only have to do it once!" -Loyalty Officer Aresen

User avatar
Aresen
Posts: 17048
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 20:18
Location: Great White Pacific Northwest

Re: We need a new word for that

Post by Aresen »

Shem wrote:Throwing good money after bad?
That is the Pentagon business plan: If your combination air-superiority fighter/front-line battle tank keeps falling apart and is threatened with budget cuts, tell them you are adding a deep-diving submersible feature.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

Post Reply