the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

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Warren
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Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by Warren »

Musical aside
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Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

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That video erases the many Jews who work in the tech industry.

And my comment stereotypes them as running an industry.

That's it, everyone report for re-education.
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Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by thoreau »

From another thread:
D.A. Ridgely wrote: 25 Feb 2019, 11:22 A significant (read: alarming) number of religious conservative Republicans are supporters of Israel because it fits into their eschatology given a stupid, literal reading of Revelation. Neocons, an admittedly dwindling number, still support Israel because its a useful military ally, though not as useful or dependable in days past.
How useful is Israel as a military ally? Setting aside questions of whether they are always on the same page as the US policy-wise, or whether we ought to be on the same page as them, how much can Israel actually support a US military operation in the Middle East? If Israeli forces were discovered operating alongside US forces the US would lose the support of whatever Arab governments were nominally supporting (or at least tolerating) a US operation. Yes, I'm sure that Israel can and does provide covert support for US operations, but it seems like that support must be incredibly risky.
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Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by D.A. Ridgely »

thoreau wrote: 25 Feb 2019, 11:29 From another thread:
D.A. Ridgely wrote: 25 Feb 2019, 11:22 A significant (read: alarming) number of religious conservative Republicans are supporters of Israel because it fits into their eschatology given a stupid, literal reading of Revelation. Neocons, an admittedly dwindling number, still support Israel because its a useful military ally, though not as useful or dependable in days past.
How useful is Israel as a military ally? Setting aside questions of whether they are always on the same page as the US policy-wise, or whether we ought to be on the same page as them, how much can Israel actually support a US military operation in the Middle East? If Israeli forces were discovered operating alongside US forces the US would lose the support of whatever Arab governments were nominally supporting (or at least tolerating) a US operation. Yes, I'm sure that Israel can and does provide covert support for US operations, but it seems like that support must be incredibly risky.
Well, first, there's intelligence sharing, at least when it is in the mutual interests of the U.S. and Israel to share intelligence, which is probably more often than not. Second, they're a decent customer, or have been in the past, for military sales. Third, they've doubtlessly taken a covert op off our hands from time to time. Fourth, unless it's been scuttled (sorry, navy slang) there's a new 'permanent' U.S. Air Base in Israel and, that aside, the U.S. has had access to and the ability to use various Israeli military installations, albeit discretely, for various logistical purposes. Finally, if push really came to shove, Israel's mere presence and its own military capabilities stand as something of a restraint on Arab national military aggression. At some order of magnitude, there's no question whether Israel would side with the U.S. against an Arab military enemy. What that entails may be iffy, but Israel is definitely an ally in ways no Arab state can legitimately claim to be regardless of how many installations OurGoodFriendsTheSaudis are 'permitting' us to maintain to keep the oil flowing and prop up their medieval autocracy.
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Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

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D.A. Ridgely wrote: 25 Feb 2019, 11:57 Second, they're a decent customer, or have been in the past, for military sales.
Wait what? Aren't they over 90 days in arrears on their account?
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Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

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Chomsky has claimed that while Israel has to tread lightly in helping the US in the Middle East, Israeli embassies apparently provide help for US covert activity elsewhere, and help the US manage its other client states.

Then again, Chomsky.

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Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by Kolohe »

I think (but don't know) that the under the radar intel sharing is indeed the most important first-order benefit.

Militarily, every other coalition the US has, and has ever had, in the area deliberately keeps Israel at arms length. Some Centcom leadership have stated that being friends with Israel brings complexity to everything else Centcom is tasked to do. (And those Centcom people were rebuked, though I don't think fired)

Nontheless, there's a case to be made that having a friendly but kinda useless country on the border of the Eastern Med is still better than having a hostile one, which is what Syria was until it imploded.

Even beside the support of the Evangencal right and Schumer center-left, the biggest thing that probably maintains US Israel relations is that Israel is coded as 'white' in the casual imagination, and Palestinians (& every other Arab nation) are coded as 'non-white'.

This isn't at all accurate on a number of different levels, but nevertheless almost certainly controls The Narrative.
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Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

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I wonder what happens with Bibi spending the past decade blowing up bipartisan friendliness. Seemed pretty counter-productive as the most hostile administration to Israel in my life was GHWB.
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Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

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Mo wrote: 25 Feb 2019, 16:13 I wonder what happens with Bibi spending the past decade blowing up bipartisan friendliness. Seemed pretty counter-productive as the most hostile administration to Israel in my life was GHWB.
I question how much it matters. To the extent that Bibi has positioned support for Israel as a conservative national security issue, remember that Democrats feel the need to prove that they are tuff, and that they are AT LEAST as patriotic and pro-security as Republicans. This will remain the case until the last Blue Boomer has left office.
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Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

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Or once they stop mattering. Which is basically when Pelosi hands the baton off (since no one GAF about what Schumer thinks).
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Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

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Eh, Blues will still want to be nice to a country that is useful for the security apparatus. Woke Millenial Blues will mostly push back by pointing out that the Reds are the real anti-Semites. And if anyone asks "What about the Palestinians?" the answer will be "Well, of course we care about the well-being of the Palestinians, and it's the Reds who have stood in the way of a fair settlement while failing to support our partners on the Israeli side." That answer is total bullshit but it plays well for the cameras, and blames the plight of the Palestinians on the Reds without actually offending anyone in Israel.
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Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

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his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex
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Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

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Israel looked at the NRA’s strategy of “lets latch on to one party like a remora to much success,” and went all the way in on that. Good thing there’s no way that can backfire. I thought there would be no way to get Chuck Schumer to criticize Israeli policy, but damn they found a way.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

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Ben Shapiro destroys Ben Shapiro is pretty good interneting.
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Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

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Mo wrote: 15 Aug 2019, 13:46 Israel looked at the NRA’s strategy of “lets latch on to one party like a remora to much success,” and went all the way in on that. Good thing there’s no way that can backfire. I thought there would be no way to get Chuck Schumer to criticize Israeli policy, but damn they found a way.
Can't find the story. I thought Chuck Schummer was totally Israel's punk.
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Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

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Aresen wrote: 15 Aug 2019, 16:04
Mo wrote: 15 Aug 2019, 13:46 Israel looked at the NRA’s strategy of “lets latch on to one party like a remora to much success,” and went all the way in on that. Good thing there’s no way that can backfire. I thought there would be no way to get Chuck Schumer to criticize Israeli policy, but damn they found a way.
Can't find the story. I thought Chuck Schummer was totally Israel's punk.
Did you google? This was my top hit

Chuck Schumer: Israel shows weakness by baring Congresswomen
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Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by Aresen »

Yeah. Google gave me a bunch of stories from last December. Nothing new.

Edit: *read article* Oh, they tread on Congressional Privilege. No wonder. Congress outranks everything in Chuckyworld.
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Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by Ellie »

Trump on Twitter quoting Wayne Allen Root something something they think he's King of Israel. I thought Wayne Allen Root was dead. Who am I thinking of, then? The one who runs for president and hates Bertrand Russell? Lew Rockwell? Who's he? Why does everyone's surname start with R?
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Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

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WAR is the intellectual heir of Lyndon Larouche.
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Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

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Trump as King of the Jews?
So you are the Trump,
The great Donald Trump,
Prove you're truly full of shit,
End a deal in a snit,
That's all you need do,
And I'll know it's all true,
Come on, you're King of the Jews!

Donald, you just won't believe
The hit you've made 'round here,
You're all we ever talk about,
You're the wonder of the year!
Oh, what a pity,
If it is all a lie,
Still I know,
You can rock the cynics if you try.

So you are the Trump,
The great Donald Trump,
Prove to me that you're a fool,
Start a phony online school,
Do that for me,
And I'll collude with thee,
Come on you're King of the Jews!

I only ask what I'd ask
Of any head of state,
What it is that you have got,
That makes your scam so great,
Oh, I am waiting,
Yes I'm a captive fan,
I'm dying to be shown that you can do a travel ban.

So you are the Trump,
Yes, the great Donald Trump,
Deck this room with phony gold,
You can do it, so I'm told.
Something gone wrong?
Why do you take so long?
Come on, you're king of the Jews!

Hey, aren't you scared of me, Trump?
Mr. President Trump?
You're a joke, you're not a lord,
You are nothing but a fraud!
Take him away,
He's got nothing to say!
Get out, you King of the--
Get out, you King of the--
Get out, you King of the Jews!

GET OUT OF MY LIFE!!!
" Columbus wasn’t a profile in courage or brilliance despite the odds, he was a dumb motherfucker that got lucky. Oddly, that makes him the perfect talisman for the Trump era."
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Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by Warren »

Aw man. You're pissing on the one good Lord Andy production.
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Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by Mo »

Crazy Uncle Rudy said the quiet part loud again.

his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex
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Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by Aresen »

Mo wrote: 21 Aug 2019, 11:45 Crazy Uncle Rudy said the quiet part loud again.

This is the flip side of the old smear that Jewish Americans had 'dual loyalties.'
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Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by thoreau »

Thing is, they don't even want American Jews to be loyal to Israel. They want them to support Likud. If tomorrow Israel got a government from the left, the American right would want American Jews to support the Likud opposition, not the Israeli ruling coalition.

They have an exceedingly narrow concept of what a good Jew can be.
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Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by thoreau »

I am tweaking the last verse:

So you are the Trump,
The great Donald Trump,
Prove you're truly full of shit,
End a deal in a snit,
That's all you need do,
And I'll know it's all true,
Come on, you're King of the Jews!

Donald, you just won't believe
The hit you've made 'round here,
You're all we ever talk about,
You're the wonder of the year!
Oh, what a pity,
If it is all a lie,
Still I know,
You can rock the cynics if you try.

So you are the Trump,
The great Donald Trump,
Prove to me that you're a fool,
Start a phony online school,
Do that for me,
And I'll collude with thee,
Come on you're King of the Jews!

I only ask what I'd ask
Of any head of state,
What it is that you have got,
That makes your scam so great,
Oh, I am waiting,
Yes I'm a captive fan,
I'm dying to be shown that you can do a travel ban.

So you are the Trump,
Yes, the great Donald Trump,
Deck this room with phony gold,
You can do it, so I'm told.
Something gone wrong?
Why do you take so long?
Come on, you're king of the Jews!

Hey, aren't you scared of me, Trump?
Mr. President Trump?
You're no joke, you're not a fraud,
You have never groped a broad!
Take him away,
He's got nothing to say!
Get out, you King of the--
Get out, you King of the--
Get out, you King of the Jews!

GET OUT OF MY LIFE!!!
" Columbus wasn’t a profile in courage or brilliance despite the odds, he was a dumb motherfucker that got lucky. Oddly, that makes him the perfect talisman for the Trump era."
--Mo
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