the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

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Warren
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Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by Warren » 15 Feb 2019, 20:47

Musical aside
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Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by thoreau » 15 Feb 2019, 21:11

That video erases the many Jews who work in the tech industry.

And my comment stereotypes them as running an industry.

That's it, everyone report for re-education.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by thoreau » 25 Feb 2019, 11:29

From another thread:
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
25 Feb 2019, 11:22
A significant (read: alarming) number of religious conservative Republicans are supporters of Israel because it fits into their eschatology given a stupid, literal reading of Revelation. Neocons, an admittedly dwindling number, still support Israel because its a useful military ally, though not as useful or dependable in days past.
How useful is Israel as a military ally? Setting aside questions of whether they are always on the same page as the US policy-wise, or whether we ought to be on the same page as them, how much can Israel actually support a US military operation in the Middle East? If Israeli forces were discovered operating alongside US forces the US would lose the support of whatever Arab governments were nominally supporting (or at least tolerating) a US operation. Yes, I'm sure that Israel can and does provide covert support for US operations, but it seems like that support must be incredibly risky.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 25 Feb 2019, 11:57

thoreau wrote:
25 Feb 2019, 11:29
From another thread:
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
25 Feb 2019, 11:22
A significant (read: alarming) number of religious conservative Republicans are supporters of Israel because it fits into their eschatology given a stupid, literal reading of Revelation. Neocons, an admittedly dwindling number, still support Israel because its a useful military ally, though not as useful or dependable in days past.
How useful is Israel as a military ally? Setting aside questions of whether they are always on the same page as the US policy-wise, or whether we ought to be on the same page as them, how much can Israel actually support a US military operation in the Middle East? If Israeli forces were discovered operating alongside US forces the US would lose the support of whatever Arab governments were nominally supporting (or at least tolerating) a US operation. Yes, I'm sure that Israel can and does provide covert support for US operations, but it seems like that support must be incredibly risky.
Well, first, there's intelligence sharing, at least when it is in the mutual interests of the U.S. and Israel to share intelligence, which is probably more often than not. Second, they're a decent customer, or have been in the past, for military sales. Third, they've doubtlessly taken a covert op off our hands from time to time. Fourth, unless it's been scuttled (sorry, navy slang) there's a new 'permanent' U.S. Air Base in Israel and, that aside, the U.S. has had access to and the ability to use various Israeli military installations, albeit discretely, for various logistical purposes. Finally, if push really came to shove, Israel's mere presence and its own military capabilities stand as something of a restraint on Arab national military aggression. At some order of magnitude, there's no question whether Israel would side with the U.S. against an Arab military enemy. What that entails may be iffy, but Israel is definitely an ally in ways no Arab state can legitimately claim to be regardless of how many installations OurGoodFriendsTheSaudis are 'permitting' us to maintain to keep the oil flowing and prop up their medieval autocracy.

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Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by Warren » 25 Feb 2019, 12:04

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
25 Feb 2019, 11:57
Second, they're a decent customer, or have been in the past, for military sales.
Wait what? Aren't they over 90 days in arrears on their account?
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Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by thoreau » 25 Feb 2019, 12:15

Chomsky has claimed that while Israel has to tread lightly in helping the US in the Middle East, Israeli embassies apparently provide help for US covert activity elsewhere, and help the US manage its other client states.

Then again, Chomsky.

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Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by Kolohe » 25 Feb 2019, 16:04

I think (but don't know) that the under the radar intel sharing is indeed the most important first-order benefit.

Militarily, every other coalition the US has, and has ever had, in the area deliberately keeps Israel at arms length. Some Centcom leadership have stated that being friends with Israel brings complexity to everything else Centcom is tasked to do. (And those Centcom people were rebuked, though I don't think fired)

Nontheless, there's a case to be made that having a friendly but kinda useless country on the border of the Eastern Med is still better than having a hostile one, which is what Syria was until it imploded.

Even beside the support of the Evangencal right and Schumer center-left, the biggest thing that probably maintains US Israel relations is that Israel is coded as 'white' in the casual imagination, and Palestinians (& every other Arab nation) are coded as 'non-white'.

This isn't at all accurate on a number of different levels, but nevertheless almost certainly controls The Narrative.
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Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by Mo » 25 Feb 2019, 16:13

I wonder what happens with Bibi spending the past decade blowing up bipartisan friendliness. Seemed pretty counter-productive as the most hostile administration to Israel in my life was GHWB.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by thoreau » 25 Feb 2019, 16:17

Mo wrote:
25 Feb 2019, 16:13
I wonder what happens with Bibi spending the past decade blowing up bipartisan friendliness. Seemed pretty counter-productive as the most hostile administration to Israel in my life was GHWB.
I question how much it matters. To the extent that Bibi has positioned support for Israel as a conservative national security issue, remember that Democrats feel the need to prove that they are tuff, and that they are AT LEAST as patriotic and pro-security as Republicans. This will remain the case until the last Blue Boomer has left office.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by Mo » 25 Feb 2019, 17:19

Or once they stop mattering. Which is basically when Pelosi hands the baton off (since no one GAF about what Schumer thinks).
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by thoreau » 25 Feb 2019, 19:00

Eh, Blues will still want to be nice to a country that is useful for the security apparatus. Woke Millenial Blues will mostly push back by pointing out that the Reds are the real anti-Semites. And if anyone asks "What about the Palestinians?" the answer will be "Well, of course we care about the well-being of the Palestinians, and it's the Reds who have stood in the way of a fair settlement while failing to support our partners on the Israeli side." That answer is total bullshit but it plays well for the cameras, and blames the plight of the Palestinians on the Reds without actually offending anyone in Israel.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by Mo » 09 Mar 2019, 11:04

his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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