the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post Reply
User avatar
JD
Posts: 10330
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:26

Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by JD » 17 Jul 2014, 13:37

Mo wrote:You heard a lot about it during the Gulf War, with all of the made up stuff about Patriots shooting down Scuds.
I think what a lot of people don't realize is that the Patriot was originally intended as an anti-aircraft weapon (aircraft being a lot bigger and a lot slower than missiles) and was only updated to try and make it into an anti-missile system shortly before the Gulf War, with very mixed results. It is apparently much more effective now.
"Millennials are lazy. They'd rather have avocado toast than cave in a man's skull with a tire iron!" -FFF

User avatar
lunchstealer
Posts: 15973
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:25
Location: The Local Fluff in the Local Bubble

Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by lunchstealer » 17 Jul 2014, 14:31

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
JasonL wrote:Conceptually, Aegis systems are pretty effective I think, and it is that concept that suggests to me that something could work.
Surface vessels are far smaller targets than cities.
Yeah, you're shooting at cruise missiles with AEGIS, which are much more like airplanes than bullets. A warhead on a ballistic trajectory is a very different animal than a missile tracking a ship. Ballistic missiles are very easy to destroy/disrupt during boost phase because they've still got engines and fuel and guidance systems and those are all easy to disrupt. A piece of shrapnel through the right spot will do the trick. Once you're on a ballistic trajectory, you've got a very small target, going very fast, and which has fewer systems that are easily disrupted, and may very well be on a trajectory that will hit a populated area without any guidance, even if it's got a guidance system to direct it to some most desirable target. You can't just put a bit of shrapnel through a fuel line or fuel tank or knock a control surface out of whack and let the thing destroy itself. You've got to hit it hard enough to disrupt the detonation system or, worse, actually disrupt the explosive material itself.

Anti-surface cruise missiles are basically always under propulsion, and always under guidance, usually flying less than 100ft above the sea, meaning that if Aegis can hit it more than, say, 1000 ft from the ship, all it has to do is knock out the propulsion or guidance systems and you've got a really good chance of it hitting the sea, not the ship.

And even then, point defense is hard.
"The constitution is more of a BDSM agreement with a safe word." - Sandy

"Neoliberalism. Austerity. Booga booga!!!!" - JasonL

"We can't confirm rumors that Lynndie England is in the running to be Gina Haspel's personal aide." - DAR

User avatar
Mo
Posts: 22990
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:08

Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by Mo » 17 Jul 2014, 15:43

Also, if you get an BM at boost phase, you're pretty certain it's the BM and not one of the decoys accompanying it.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

User avatar
lunchstealer
Posts: 15973
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:25
Location: The Local Fluff in the Local Bubble

Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by lunchstealer » 17 Jul 2014, 16:41

Mo wrote:Also, if you get an BM at boost phase, you're pretty certain it's the BM and not one of the decoys accompanying it.
Except, of course, that the whole point of ballistic missiles is that you can launch them from so far away that your target cannot react until after the boost phase. So maybe if we had radars and launchers in South Korea we could knock down an NK booster, but there's no reasonable way to get a radar and launch system into position to hit a Chinese, Russian, or probably even Iranian ballistic missile.
"The constitution is more of a BDSM agreement with a safe word." - Sandy

"Neoliberalism. Austerity. Booga booga!!!!" - JasonL

"We can't confirm rumors that Lynndie England is in the running to be Gina Haspel's personal aide." - DAR

User avatar
tr0g
Posts: 6672
Joined: 11 May 2011, 10:21
Location: At the shop

Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by tr0g » 17 Jul 2014, 17:08

lunchstealer wrote:
Mo wrote:Also, if you get an BM at boost phase, you're pretty certain it's the BM and not one of the decoys accompanying it.
Except, of course, that the whole point of ballistic missiles is that you can launch them from so far away that your target cannot react until after the boost phase. So maybe if we had radars and launchers in South Korea we could knock down an NK booster, but there's no reasonable way to get a radar and launch system into position to hit a Chinese, Russian, or probably even Iranian ballistic missile.
The hell there ain't. High guard, bitches. Fuck yo' treaties, we militarize what we want.
Yeah but how can you tell at a glance which junk a raccoon is packing? Also, gay raccoons? - Hugh Akston
Nothing you can say is as important as the existence of a functioning marketplace of ideas, go set yourself on fire. - JasonL

User avatar
Kolohe
Posts: 13429
Joined: 06 May 2010, 10:51

Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by Kolohe » 17 Jul 2014, 17:26

The point of ballistic missiles is that they're a heck of lot easier to make and maintain than cruise missiles (of the same range) We don't use srbm's because we're rich, bitches. (And that srbm and irbms are mostly proscribed by Soviet era treaties)

Edit and like most other aspects of our military inventory, our missile inventory is based around playing away games not home games.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

User avatar
Fin Fang Foom
Posts: 9539
Joined: 05 May 2010, 22:39

Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 21 Jul 2014, 23:38

Mo wrote:Also, if you get an BM at boost phase, you're pretty certain it's the BM and not one of the decoys accompanying it.
Now, that's not true. I have definitely had farts that feel like shits that I sit down and squeeze out. Sadly, I've also had the reverse. Hence, the sitting down on the toilet to fart occasionally.

User avatar
Aresen
Posts: 14493
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 20:18
Location: Great White Pacific Northwest

Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by Aresen » 21 Jul 2014, 23:45

Fin Fang Foom wrote:
Mo wrote:Also, if you get an BM at boost phase, you're pretty certain it's the BM and not one of the decoys accompanying it.
Now, that's not true. I have definitely had farts that feel like shits that I sit down and squeeze out. Sadly, I've also had the reverse. Hence, the sitting down on the toilet to fart occasionally.
We're talking about shitty weapons, not weaponized shit.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

User avatar
Taktix®
Posts: 7753
Joined: 07 May 2010, 05:29
Location: The Caribbean

Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by Taktix® » 22 Jul 2014, 16:30

Maybe we'd have BM-killing-lasers by now if all the optical physicists weren't sitting on their hands, watching bad tv on sabbatical.

Damn you, concept of tenure!
"Guilty as charged. Go ahead and ban me from the mall." - Ellie

User avatar
thoreau
Posts: 26263
Joined: 06 May 2010, 12:56
Location: Back to the lab again

Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by thoreau » 22 Jul 2014, 16:37

Taktix® wrote:Maybe we'd have BM-killing-lasers by now if all the optical physicists weren't sitting on their hands, watching bad tv on sabbatical.

Damn you, concept of tenure!
Look, I'm busy writing essays for the Chronicle and trying to cure diabetes by studying corn syrup.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
--Shem

User avatar
Hugh Akston
Posts: 17170
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:51
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora Reina de los Angeles

Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by Hugh Akston » 22 Jul 2014, 17:22

I'm theoretically on board with BM-killing lasers to replace toilets (or maybe colons?). I just don't want to sign on as a Beta tester.
"Is a Lulztopia the best we can hope for?!?" ~Taktix®
"Inexplicably cockfighting monsters that live in your pants" ~Jadagul

User avatar
thoreau
Posts: 26263
Joined: 06 May 2010, 12:56
Location: Back to the lab again

Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by thoreau » 27 Jul 2014, 12:16

Last night I watched The Gatekeepers, a documentary in which several former leaders of Shin Bet are interviewed. A lot of complicated things are discussed, but the biggest takeaway is that even these guys are willing to say that the occupation is ultimately unworkable.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
--Shem

User avatar
thoreau
Posts: 26263
Joined: 06 May 2010, 12:56
Location: Back to the lab again

Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by thoreau » 01 Aug 2014, 16:22

"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
--Shem

User avatar
dbcooper
Posts: 18007
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:40

Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by dbcooper » 02 Aug 2014, 23:20

Image
Slip inside a sleeping bag.

User avatar
dbcooper
Posts: 18007
Joined: 05 May 2010, 15:40

Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by dbcooper » 05 Aug 2014, 18:08

Image
Slip inside a sleeping bag.

User avatar
Aresen
Posts: 14493
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 20:18
Location: Great White Pacific Northwest

Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by Aresen » 05 Aug 2014, 22:16

dbcooper wrote:Image
Was the "Jet Dry Finish" part of the briefing? :mrgreen:
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

User avatar
thoreau
Posts: 26263
Joined: 06 May 2010, 12:56
Location: Back to the lab again

Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by thoreau » 06 Aug 2014, 00:36

Short of gas chambers, there is quite literally nothing that Israel could do to the Palestinians that would alienate a majority of Congress.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
--Shem

User avatar
Warren
Posts: 24407
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:03
Location: Goat Rope MO
Contact:

Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by Warren » 06 Aug 2014, 17:50

thoreau wrote:Short of gas chambers, there is quite literally nothing that Israel could do to the Palestinians that would alienate a majority of Congress.
I'm not sure about the gas chambers either.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT

User avatar
lunchstealer
Posts: 15973
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:25
Location: The Local Fluff in the Local Bubble

Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by lunchstealer » 06 Aug 2014, 18:02

Warren wrote:
thoreau wrote:Short of gas chambers, there is quite literally nothing that Israel could do to the Palestinians that would alienate a majority of Congress.
I'm not sure about the gas chambers either.
I think straight-up march-them-into-ovens might do the trick, maybe, but then it would probably not be a veto-proof majority. Gas chambers can be misinterpreted as merely a means of execution that a lot of us remember still happening in the US, and thus can maintain a certain plausible oh-I-just-misunderstood deniability. Ovens, not so much.
"The constitution is more of a BDSM agreement with a safe word." - Sandy

"Neoliberalism. Austerity. Booga booga!!!!" - JasonL

"We can't confirm rumors that Lynndie England is in the running to be Gina Haspel's personal aide." - DAR

User avatar
D.A. Ridgely
Posts: 17905
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:09
Location: The Other Side

Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 06 Aug 2014, 18:26

But if the ovens are being fueled by American fracked natural gas, I think Israel could count on support from any number of Midwestern senators and congressmen.

User avatar
Mo
Posts: 22990
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:08

Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by Mo » 06 Aug 2014, 19:34

The shifting of the Overton Window re: civilian casualties to the OBL definition is pretty shocking.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

User avatar
thoreau
Posts: 26263
Joined: 06 May 2010, 12:56
Location: Back to the lab again

Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by thoreau » 06 Aug 2014, 19:37

Mo wrote:The shifting of the Overton Window re: civilian casualties to the OBL definition is pretty shocking.
When you frame it like that, I can sort of see how something much, much worse could happen.
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
--Shem

User avatar
D.A. Ridgely
Posts: 17905
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 17:09
Location: The Other Side

Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 06 Aug 2014, 20:11

The thing is, though, looking at the history of the Middle East, it's hard for me as a Westerner to have any sense of optimism irrespective of what US policy might be. And that said, there is no reason to believe US policy is going to shift significantly from what it has always been: keep the oil coming, Israel stays.

User avatar
Aresen
Posts: 14493
Joined: 26 Apr 2010, 20:18
Location: Great White Pacific Northwest

Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by Aresen » 06 Aug 2014, 22:04

D.A. Ridgely wrote:But if the ovens are being fueled by American fracked natural gas, I think Israel could count on support from any number of Midwestern senators and congressmen.
Image
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

User avatar
thoreau
Posts: 26263
Joined: 06 May 2010, 12:56
Location: Back to the lab again

Re: the entirely civil and thoughtful israel thread

Post by thoreau » 12 Aug 2014, 12:01

http://m.chronicle.com/article/Israeli- ... cry/148357

I can't see somebody getting away with an analogous statement from a pro-Palestinian viewpoint
"ike Wile E. Coyote salivating over a "4000 Ways To Prepare Roadrunner" cookbook without watching his surroundings, the Road Runner of Societal Inertia snuck up on them both and beepbeeped them off the mesa."
--Shem

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: JD and 3 guests