Page 1 of 59

The Trayvon Martin thread

Posted: 20 Mar 2012, 09:20
by Mo
Were I a gun group, I would push hard for George Zimmerman's prosecution and support Trayvon Martin's side. Zimmerman is like a stereotype from a gun-grabber's fevered nightmares and makes responsible owners look bad.

Re: The Trayvon Martin thread

Posted: 20 Mar 2012, 09:29
by the innominate one
Agreed. In TV stereotype, he's one step removed from the bumbling security guard who wants to be a tough guy cop. He's a neighborhood watch captain who wishes he was good enough to be a security guard, even though his actual dream job is tough guy cop.

Re: The Trayvon Martin thread

Posted: 20 Mar 2012, 09:43
by dhex
racist paranoid dipshit murderer.

Re: The Trayvon Martin thread

Posted: 20 Mar 2012, 13:55
by thoreau
I'm a little bit scared to see what H&R commenters think about this case.

Re: The Trayvon Martin thread

Posted: 20 Mar 2012, 21:14
by Aresen
thoreau wrote:I'm a little bit scared to see what H&R commenters think about this case.
Usual crap. Invocations of Al Sharpton as bogeyman with charges of racism flying both ways.

Re: The Trayvon Martin thread

Posted: 20 Mar 2012, 21:23
by D.A. Ridgely
Historical context:


Re: The Trayvon Martin thread

Posted: 20 Mar 2012, 21:27
by dhex
man, al sharpton fucked a lot of their moms.

Re: The Trayvon Martin thread

Posted: 20 Mar 2012, 22:51
by thoreau
This might be a blessing rather than a curse, but threading the comments makes the whole thing unreadable.

Re: The Trayvon Martin thread

Posted: 21 Mar 2012, 00:40
by Pham Nuwen
Oh wow. I had to stop reading the comments over at reason. Come to think of it . . . I can't recall an HnR thread that hasn't appalled me in over a year. I'm not sure why I bother.

Re: The Trayvon Martin thread

Posted: 21 Mar 2012, 00:49
by lunchstealer
I just loved the quote from the police chief along the lines of "He says it was self defense so we have no recourse - we can't arrest him. Our hands are tied!"

What a fuckhole. I'd love to see his department legally barred from arresting anyone who says the words 'self defense' for assault type charges. See how long the asshole keeps his job.

Re: The Trayvon Martin thread

Posted: 21 Mar 2012, 01:17
by Eric the .5b
lunchstealer wrote:I just loved the quote from the police chief along the lines of "He says it was self defense so we have no recourse - we can't arrest him. Our hands are tied!"

What a fuckhole. I'd love to see his department legally barred from arresting anyone who says the words 'self defense' for assault type charges. See how long the asshole keeps his job.
I somehow suspect that if Martin had been armed and able to defend himself from a armed, racist killer, they would have found a way to arrest him.

Re: The Trayvon Martin thread

Posted: 21 Mar 2012, 01:21
by Jennifer
I'm glad the Feds stepped in. (washes self, fears I'll never feel clean again)

Re: The Trayvon Martin thread

Posted: 21 Mar 2012, 01:27
by Eric the .5b
Jennifer wrote:I'm glad the Feds stepped in. (washes self, fears I'll never feel clean again)
Sometimes it helps when the State bites at itself.

Re: The Trayvon Martin thread

Posted: 21 Mar 2012, 02:02
by thoreau
lunchstealer wrote:I just loved the quote from the police chief along the lines of "He says it was self defense so we have no recourse - we can't arrest him. Our hands are tied!"
"I swear, officer, my ex and her lover had it coming!"

"Oh, well, then, in that case, yeah, no murder charges."

Re: The Trayvon Martin thread

Posted: 21 Mar 2012, 02:06
by thoreau
Suspect: "Look, I'm a med student at U. Nevada-Reno, and for my homework assignment in my Pathology class I had to watch a man die."
Deputy Travis Junior: "Well, OK, I'll have to check that out. Hey, Dangle, is it legal to shoot a man in Reno just to watch him die?"
Lt. Dangle: "That's a song, isn't it?"
*Dangle and Junior hum a few bars*
Together: "I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die..."
Junior: "I love that song."
(Suspect sneaks away)

Re: The Trayvon Martin thread

Posted: 21 Mar 2012, 02:22
by Shem
"Look officer, if I hadn't hunted that man down and picked a fight with him, despite a 911 operator's repeated orders to cease immediately and the local neighborhood watch handbook's strict orders A) not to follow suspects under any circumstances and B) to never be armed while on duty, he might have continued quietly using that public sidewalk, thereby threatening my life. So clearly it's a matter of self-defense."
"Well, he's got us there."

Seriously, nobody does paranoid like enclavized white people do paranoid.

Re: The Trayvon Martin thread

Posted: 21 Mar 2012, 02:27
by thoreau
Shem wrote:"Look officer, if I hadn't hunted that man down and picked a fight with him, despite a 911 operator's repeated orders to cease immediately and the local neighborhood watch handbook's strict orders A) not to follow suspects under any circumstances and B) to never be armed while on duty, he might have continued quietly using that public sidewalk, thereby threatening my life. So clearly it's a matter of self-defense."
This is why I consider it likely that he'll be convicted of a crime, unless there's either some substantial evidence that we haven't seen or (more likely) the prosecution screws up.
Seriously, nobody does paranoid like enclavized white people do paranoid.
This is why I consider it likely that he'll be considered a martyr if he is convicted of a crime.

Re: The Trayvon Martin thread

Posted: 21 Mar 2012, 02:41
by dbcooper
Wasn't he latino?

Re: The Trayvon Martin thread

Posted: 21 Mar 2012, 02:43
by Shem
thoreau wrote:This is why I consider it likely that he'll be convicted of a crime, unless there's either some substantial evidence that we haven't seen or (more likely) the prosecution screws up.
Justice department isn't going to let this guy get off without two trials, (if necessary, they'll pull out the civil rights violation cavalcade of whimsy) so the latter seems somewhat less likely.
This is why I consider it likely that he'll be considered a martyr if he is convicted of a crime.
Sad to say, but it depends on the deceased, I think. Most people don't have the stomach to make a martyr out of someone who killed an honor student, or even an average kid these days, even if he is black. If the defense is at all successful in painting him as a "thug," or making the murderer look like the victim of a pattern of abuses, though, all bets are off.

Re: The Trayvon Martin thread

Posted: 21 Mar 2012, 06:11
by Kolohe
dbcooper wrote:Wasn't he latino?
It seems like this fact varies, some earlier reporting said Zimmerman was Hispanic, most stories now say white.*

Image

The photo that the press always uses (the one above) is also apparently 7 years old.

*or split the difference and call him a 'white Hispanic man'

Re: The Trayvon Martin thread

Posted: 21 Mar 2012, 09:48
by Andrew
Jennifer wrote:I'm glad the Feds stepped in. (washes self, fears I'll never feel clean again)
Well, if it makes you feel any better, it's arguably the purpose of the 14th amendment. It's a rare occasion when the Feds do the right thing.
thoreau wrote:This is why I consider it likely that he'll be convicted of a crime, unless there's either some substantial evidence that we haven't seen or (more likely) the prosecution screws up.
Never doubt the ability of prosecutors to take a dive. Popular and/or wealthy defendant? It's amazing how many problems arise with a case and require dismissal. Poor and/or black defendant? There is no end to the lengths the prosecutor will go to in order to get a conviction.
Shem wrote:the civil rights violation cavalcade of whimsy
I've only been up half an hour, but I can tell that's going to be the phrase of the day. If not week.

Re: The Trayvon Martin thread

Posted: 21 Mar 2012, 10:30
by Mo
Shem wrote:
thoreau wrote:This is why I consider it likely that he'll be convicted of a crime, unless there's either some substantial evidence that we haven't seen or (more likely) the prosecution screws up.
Justice department isn't going to let this guy get off without two trials, (if necessary, they'll pull out the civil rights violation cavalcade of whimsy) so the latter seems somewhat less likely.
What's the over-under on timing for a civil rights suit against the Sanford PD? They found an unarmed kid and did close to nothing about the whole thing. They didn't even try to identify him, FFS, despite there being a cell phone on the body. If there's a race/civil rights angle, it's at Sanford PD.
Shem wrote:Sad to say, but it depends on the deceased, I think. Most people don't have the stomach to make a martyr out of someone who killed an honor student, or even an average kid these days, even if he is black. If the defense is at all successful in painting him as a "thug," or making the murderer look like the victim of a pattern of abuses, though, all bets are off.
This guy is screwed. Even the "I'm not racist, I just like to use racial slurs to be edgy" crew at H&R is backing away from Zimmerman and the L&O crowd will do the same as his arrest for assaulting a police officer becomes well known.

Re: The Trayvon Martin thread

Posted: 21 Mar 2012, 14:49
by Mo
Interestingly, since the Stand Your Ground law passed, justified homicides tripled in Florida.

Re: The Trayvon Martin thread

Posted: 21 Mar 2012, 15:00
by dhex
it's far lower than i'd think it'd be in terms of total #s, given the way people talk about florida as a kind of white trash mad max playground.

Re: The Trayvon Martin thread

Posted: 21 Mar 2012, 15:04
by D.A. Ridgely
It's worth noting that, at least at common law -- Gawd knows what some states have done by codifying changes -- the test for justifiable homicide has always been not whether the actual individual actually believed his or some other innocent person's life was in danger or danger of grievous bodily harm, but what a reasonable, prudent person in that situation would believe.

I'm pretty sure a reasonable, prudent person, standing his ground or even backed into a corner, still wouldn't be threatened by a cell phone. Well, maybe a RAZR, (Get it? RAZR=razor? Thank you. Thank you very much. I'll be here all week. Don't forget the waitstaff.)