Pick Your Poisson

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Fin Fang Foom
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Re: Pick Your Poisson

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 17 Jul 2017, 09:36

NuWho always sucked. So did OldWho except for it's charming low rentness and Tom Baker's scene chewing.
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Ellie
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Re: Pick Your Poisson

Post by Ellie » 17 Jul 2017, 10:39

There were a few fun episodes with Christopher Eccelston and David Tennant, and with Billie PIper and Catherine Tate as companions. (I never liked Martha as a companion, which I'm sure makes me a racist.) I never warmed to Matt Smith or that annoying bitchy Amy Pond, and lost interest in watching.

Also, I have endless love for Jack, of course.
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Sandy
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Re: Pick Your Poisson

Post by Sandy » 17 Jul 2017, 10:47

Highway wrote:
17 Jul 2017, 07:32
Sandy wrote:
17 Jul 2017, 00:23
thoreau wrote:At this point any criticism probably is misogyny. The episodes haven't aired. Give her a chance.

After it airs, it can and should be fair game.

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If you read the link, the assumption is after the premiere, any criticism will be so labeled.
Yeah, but that's a super low bar to clear. It's the same problem those worries always have: Hey, a couple people on twitter said that we didn't like it because misogyny! Therefore, it's ALL SJWs!

And like thoreau alluded to, there's PLENTY of misogynistic criticism *right now* about it. Those don't get magically transformed into thoughtful analysis because someone laid out a playbook for discrediting criticism of the criticism.
Highway wrote:Hey, a couple people on twitter said that we didn't like it because misogyny! Therefore, it's ALL SJWs!
So tons of people going on about it are a "couple".
Highway wrote: there's PLENTY of misogynistic criticism *right now* about it
So a few butthurt trolls is PLENTY. Not even the Gamergaters I've followed have had any comment beyond "here come the male tears tweets."

Pick one, maybe?

And the problem isn't "a few people on Twitter," it's all the journos falling over themselves to shout down any criticism as misogyny, whether it's actual "ew women stink" or the usual nerd rage about continuity and world-building.

And once the show premieres, I guarantee there will be tons of "the show is awesome and proves the nerds wrong" whether it is in fact awesome or not, and when the audience of people who like controversy dies off and the numbers slump and more in-depth criticism appears, it too will be shouted down.

It happened with Ghostbusters and Star Wars VII, it's gonna happen here. The "backlash" against Star Wars was literally one PUA writing an article on his site plus three or four tweets. Then when people pointed out that Rey was an OP Mary Sue, "omg misogyny!"

I hope it's awesome, because I have a nostalgic attachment to Doctor Who and would like it to be watchable again. But I'm not going to watch because otherwise I'm Not Supporting Women™ because that's just stupid. But I'm going to wait to hear reviews from people who don't think this is the first time a woman has had a major role in SFF before watching, because I'm only alive so long.

The genre that gave us Ripley and Janeway and Romana and Rey and and and is not full of people who won't accept female characters. I'll note even the criticism of female Starbuck went away after the show debuted and was awesome. All without a thousand media studies grads lecturing us about social justice.
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Sandy
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Re: Pick Your Poisson

Post by Sandy » 17 Jul 2017, 10:49

Ellie wrote:
17 Jul 2017, 10:39
There were a few fun episodes with Christopher Eccelston and David Tennant, and with Billie PIper and Catherine Tate as companions. (I never liked Martha as a companion, which I'm sure makes me a racist.) I never warmed to Matt Smith or that annoying bitchy Amy Pond, and lost interest in watching.

Also, I have endless love for Jack, of course.
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End gingerphobia! Repent!
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Mo
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Re: Pick Your Poisson

Post by Mo » 17 Jul 2017, 10:53

I don't see what that Twitter thread of prediction proves except that Twitter is boringly predictable. Witness:

Phase 1: Some allegation about Trump will come out in a major newspaper
Phase 2: Administration will deny citing "fake news"with an excuse and Fox News will defend vigorously
Phase 3: Additional reporting will confirm above
Phase 4: Tweet from POTUS will undermine original denial and spokespeople and Fox will change denial and pretend first denial never happened
Phase 5: Media will cluck disapprovingly and get distracted by new shiny penny scandal
Phase 6: Administration and Fox will take this as evidence "real Americans" don't care about what the "fake news media" says. MAGA.

This will happen between 5-10 more times this year. What does it prove? Shit is boringly predictable.
Then when people pointed out that Rey was an OP Mary Sue, "omg misogyny!"
Which is a damn shame. It totally changed the history of SW as she was first one in the entire history of the franchise.
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Painboy
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Re: Pick Your Poisson

Post by Painboy » 17 Jul 2017, 11:04

Dr. Who is too goofy a show to hate whether you like it or not.* Also if the Doctor being a woman is what you find too weird then you clearly haven't been watching the show anyway.

*My opinion being a solid meh.

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Sandy
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Re: Pick Your Poisson

Post by Sandy » 17 Jul 2017, 11:45

Mo wrote:
17 Jul 2017, 10:53
Which is a damn shame. It totally changed the history of SW as she was first one in the entire history of the franchise.
It's true, totally hypocritical that young Anakin is the most beloved character and the prequels are consistently ranked as fan favorites.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Pick Your Poisson

Post by Eric the .5b » 17 Jul 2017, 15:07

Painboy wrote:
17 Jul 2017, 11:04
Dr. Who is too goofy a show to hate whether you like it or not.* Also if the Doctor being a woman is what you find too weird then you clearly haven't been watching the show anyway.
Yeah, and the viewership has been dropping for the last decade. I don't think the efforts to set up "the SJWs will ruin Who and anyone who will defend it will be an SJW!" in advance will have much traction. Or even afterward. The most reasonable expectation is that they'll give shit writing to an excellent actress, just as they gave shit writing* to an excellent actor with Capaldi. If so, the show will maintain. If the new showrunner is any good, it'll improve. If they find ways to make the writing worse, it'll tank.




* Seriously, I read the script for "Face the Raven", an episode that got a lot of reaction, and my reaction was, "So Doctor Who became half-assed urban fantasy?" Seriously, after Chopra, throwing around "quantum" doesn't make blatantly magical things science-fictiony anymore. And I found it hard to believe it wasn't "how the Doctor's new companion got killed two episodes after first appearing".
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Kolohe
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Re: Pick Your Poisson

Post by Kolohe » 17 Jul 2017, 15:34

Ellie wrote:There were a few fun episodes with Christopher Eccelston and David Tennant, and with Billie PIper and Catherine Tate as companions. (I never liked Martha as a companion, which I'm sure makes me a racist.) I never warmed to Matt Smith or that annoying bitchy Amy Pond, and lost interest in watching.

Also, I have endless love for Jack, of course.
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Billie piper's acting in the beginning of her run was terribad. (Like, Lynda Carter in the WW pilot bad). But she did get better.

Nu Who principal companion ranking
1) Donna (by far)
2) Ponds (but only together)
3) Martha
4) Rose
5) Clara
6) Bill

(With time, Bill could pull ahead of Clara. But time is what caused Clara to fall behind Rose; if she would have finished her run when she was supposed to, her ranking would have been improved)

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dbcooper
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Re: Pick Your Poisson

Post by dbcooper » 17 Jul 2017, 16:27

Fin Fang Foom wrote:
17 Jul 2017, 09:36
NuWho always sucked. So did OldWho except for it's charming low rentness and Tom Baker's scene chewing.
+1

NuWho is a war crime.
Slip inside a sleeping bag.

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Warren
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Re: Pick Your Poisson

Post by Warren » 17 Jul 2017, 16:51

Fin Fang Foom wrote:
17 Jul 2017, 09:36
NuWho always sucked. So did OldWho except for it's charming low rentness and Tom Baker's scene chewing.
You fail to be incorrect sir.


ETA
Rose Tyler was the worst.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT

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lunchstealer
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Re: Pick Your Poisson

Post by lunchstealer » 17 Jul 2017, 19:59

Sandy wrote:
17 Jul 2017, 10:49
Ellie wrote:
17 Jul 2017, 10:39
There were a few fun episodes with Christopher Eccelston and David Tennant, and with Billie PIper and Catherine Tate as companions. (I never liked Martha as a companion, which I'm sure makes me a racist.) I never warmed to Matt Smith or that annoying bitchy Amy Pond, and lost interest in watching.

Also, I have endless love for Jack, of course.
Image
You're why there's never been a redheaded Doctor.

End gingerphobia! Repent!
It's people like you what cause unrest.

Also, I keep seeing this ginger thing. It's clearly a thing. Is it supposed to be all ironical about how nobody knows who Colin Baker was?
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Pick Your Poisson

Post by Eric the .5b » 17 Jul 2017, 22:12

lunchstealer wrote:
17 Jul 2017, 19:59
Sandy wrote:
17 Jul 2017, 10:49
Ellie wrote:
17 Jul 2017, 10:39
There were a few fun episodes with Christopher Eccelston and David Tennant, and with Billie PIper and Catherine Tate as companions. (I never liked Martha as a companion, which I'm sure makes me a racist.) I never warmed to Matt Smith or that annoying bitchy Amy Pond, and lost interest in watching.

Also, I have endless love for Jack, of course.
Image
You're why there's never been a redheaded Doctor.

End gingerphobia! Repent!
It's people like you what cause unrest.

Also, I keep seeing this ginger thing. It's clearly a thing. Is it supposed to be all ironical about how nobody knows who Colin Baker was?
A line from either Eccleston or Tennant's first episode, where the Doctor looks at himself for the first time, that regeneration, and tuts about how he's hoped he'd be ginger, this time.
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dead_elvis
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Re: Pick Your Poisson

Post by dead_elvis » 17 Jul 2017, 22:49

lunchstealer wrote:
17 Jul 2017, 19:59
Is it supposed to be all ironical about how nobody knows who Colin Baker was?
I don't recall any other Doctors between Tom Baker and Eccleston. There were none.
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Jennifer
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Re: Pick Your Poisson

Post by Jennifer » 17 Jul 2017, 22:56

The guys whining about #NurseWho on Twitter couldn't be more outraged if their own personal penes had been lost.
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Re: Pick Your Poisson

Post by lunchstealer » 17 Jul 2017, 23:52

dead_elvis wrote:
17 Jul 2017, 22:49
lunchstealer wrote:
17 Jul 2017, 19:59
Is it supposed to be all ironical about how nobody knows who Colin Baker was?
I don't recall any other Doctors between Tom Baker and Eccleston. There were none.
See, I have to separate the doctor from the shitshow writing. McCoy and Capaldi had some truly fucking AWFUL stories - Curse of Fenric was just such horrible shit that is an insult to shit - but I loved their characterizations of the Doctor. Grubby protuberances, bitches.
"The constitution is more of a BDSM agreement with a safe word." - Sandy

"Neoliberalism. Austerity. Booga booga!!!!" - JasonL

"We can't confirm rumors that Lynndie England is in the running to be Gina Haspel's personal aide." - DAR

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lunchstealer
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Re: Pick Your Poisson

Post by lunchstealer » 17 Jul 2017, 23:54

(And I kind of like Tristan Farnon despite the whole emo shit thing)
"The constitution is more of a BDSM agreement with a safe word." - Sandy

"Neoliberalism. Austerity. Booga booga!!!!" - JasonL

"We can't confirm rumors that Lynndie England is in the running to be Gina Haspel's personal aide." - DAR

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thoreau
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Re: Pick Your Poisson

Post by thoreau » 18 Jul 2017, 00:03

I thought that if they liked their Doctor then they could keep him.

Thanks Obama.

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Dangerman
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Re: Pick Your Poisson

Post by Dangerman » 18 Jul 2017, 08:44

Dr. Who is the tv version of listening to a hippy talk about this mushroom trip they had once.

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Fin Fang Foom
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Re: Pick Your Poisson

Post by Fin Fang Foom » 18 Jul 2017, 09:47

Old Who atbleast did some weird shit occasionally, and they kept the fan service to a minimum.
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dead_elvis
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Re: Pick Your Poisson

Post by dead_elvis » 18 Jul 2017, 10:37

thoreau wrote:
18 Jul 2017, 00:03
I thought that if they liked their Doctor then they could keep him.

Thanks Obama.
(goes down basement stairs, double checks that Eccleston is still shackled to the wall, comes back up)

Yes, thanks Obama!
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Sandy
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Re: Pick Your Poisson

Post by Sandy » 18 Jul 2017, 15:31

lunchstealer wrote:
17 Jul 2017, 19:59
Also, I keep seeing this ginger thing. It's clearly a thing. Is it supposed to be all ironical about how nobody knows who Colin Baker was?
He was at most strawberry blond.

I wish he'd had some of the Douglas Adams-era quality scripts.
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Eric the .5b
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Re: Pick Your Poisson

Post by Eric the .5b » 18 Jul 2017, 15:35

Fin Fang Foom wrote:
18 Jul 2017, 09:47
Old Who atbleast did some weird shit occasionally, and they kept the fan service to a minimum.
Which meaning of fan service are you going for, here?
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
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Hugh Akston
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Re: Pick Your Poisson

Post by Hugh Akston » 31 Jul 2017, 16:44

If I'm still living here in 11 years I will deserve what I get.
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Jadagul
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Re: Pick Your Poisson

Post by Jadagul » 31 Jul 2017, 17:02

Honestly, I feel like that could be kinda fun if I'm still here.

But then, I don't have work during the summer, so if it's too much of a clusterfuck I can just stay home for a week.

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