Pick Your Poisson

[Fin Fang Foom]

NuWho always sucked. So did OldWho except for it's charming low rentness and Tom Baker's scene chewing.

[Ellie]

There were a few fun episodes with Christopher Eccelston and David Tennant, and with Billie PIper and Catherine Tate as companions. (I never liked Martha as a companion, which I'm sure makes me a racist.) I never warmed to Matt Smith or that annoying bitchy Amy Pond, and lost interest in watching.

Also, I have endless love for Jack, of course.

[Sandy]

At this point any criticism probably is misogyny. The episodes haven't aired. Give her a chance.

After it airs, it can and should be fair game.

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If you read the link, the assumption is after the premiere, any criticism will be so labeled.

Yeah, but that's a super low bar to clear. It's the same problem those worries always have: Hey, a couple people on twitter said that we didn't like it because misogyny! Therefore, it's ALL SJWs!

And like thoreau alluded to, there's PLENTY of misogynistic criticism *right now* about it. Those don't get magically transformed into thoughtful analysis because someone laid out a playbook for discrediting criticism of the criticism.

Hey, a couple people on twitter said that we didn't like it because misogyny! Therefore, it's ALL SJWs!

So tons of people going on about it are a "couple".

there's PLENTY of misogynistic criticism *right now* about it

So a few butthurt trolls is PLENTY. Not even the Gamergaters I've followed have had any comment beyond "here come the male tears tweets."

Pick one, maybe?

And the problem isn't "a few people on Twitter," it's all the journos falling over themselves to shout down any criticism as misogyny, whether it's actual "ew women stink" or the usual nerd rage about continuity and world-building.

And once the show premieres, I guarantee there will be tons of "the show is awesome and proves the nerds wrong" whether it is in fact awesome or not, and when the audience of people who like controversy dies off and the numbers slump and more in-depth criticism appears, it too will be shouted down.

It happened with Ghostbusters and Star Wars VII, it's gonna happen here. The "backlash" against Star Wars was literally one PUA writing an article on his site plus three or four tweets. Then when people pointed out that Rey was an OP Mary Sue, "omg misogyny!"

I hope it's awesome, because I have a nostalgic attachment to Doctor Who and would like it to be watchable again. But I'm not going to watch because otherwise I'm Not Supporting Women™ because that's just stupid. But I'm going to wait to hear reviews from people who don't think this is the first time a woman has had a major role in SFF before watching, because I'm only alive so long.

The genre that gave us Ripley and Janeway and Romana and Rey and and and is not full of people who won't accept female characters. I'll note even the criticism of female Starbuck went away after the show debuted and was awesome. All without a thousand media studies grads lecturing us about social justice.

[Sandy]

There were a few fun episodes with Christopher Eccelston and David Tennant, and with Billie PIper and Catherine Tate as companions. (I never liked Martha as a companion, which I'm sure makes me a racist.) I never warmed to Matt Smith or that annoying bitchy Amy Pond, and lost interest in watching.

Also, I have endless love for Jack, of course.

You're why there's never been a redheaded Doctor.

End gingerphobia! Repent!

[Mo]

I don't see what that Twitter thread of prediction proves except that Twitter is boringly predictable. Witness:

Phase 1: Some allegation about Trump will come out in a major newspaper
Phase 2: Administration will deny citing "fake news"with an excuse and Fox News will defend vigorously
Phase 3: Additional reporting will confirm above
Phase 4: Tweet from POTUS will undermine original denial and spokespeople and Fox will change denial and pretend first denial never happened
Phase 5: Media will cluck disapprovingly and get distracted by new shiny penny scandal
Phase 6: Administration and Fox will take this as evidence "real Americans" don't care about what the "fake news media" says. MAGA.

This will happen between 5-10 more times this year. What does it prove? Shit is boringly predictable.

Then when people pointed out that Rey was an OP Mary Sue, "omg misogyny!"

Which is a damn shame. It totally changed the history of SW as she was first one in the entire history of the franchise.

[Painboy]

Dr. Who is too goofy a show to hate whether you like it or not.* Also if the Doctor being a woman is what you find too weird then you clearly haven't been watching the show anyway.

*My opinion being a solid meh.

[Sandy]

Which is a damn shame. It totally changed the history of SW as she was first one in the entire history of the franchise.

It's true, totally hypocritical that young Anakin is the most beloved character and the prequels are consistently ranked as fan favorites.

[Eric the .5b]

Dr. Who is too goofy a show to hate whether you like it or not.* Also if the Doctor being a woman is what you find too weird then you clearly haven't been watching the show anyway.

Yeah, and the viewership has been dropping for the last decade. I don't think the efforts to set up "the SJWs will ruin Who and anyone who will defend it will be an SJW!" in advance will have much traction. Or even afterward. The most reasonable expectation is that they'll give shit writing to an excellent actress, just as they gave shit writing* to an excellent actor with Capaldi. If so, the show will maintain. If the new showrunner is any good, it'll improve. If they find ways to make the writing worse, it'll tank.




* Seriously, I read the script for "Face the Raven", an episode that got a lot of reaction, and my reaction was, "So Doctor Who became half-assed urban fantasy?" Seriously, after Chopra, throwing around "quantum" doesn't make blatantly magical things science-fictiony anymore. And I found it hard to believe it wasn't "how the Doctor's new companion got killed two episodes after first appearing".

[Kolohe]

There were a few fun episodes with Christopher Eccelston and David Tennant, and with Billie PIper and Catherine Tate as companions. (I never liked Martha as a companion, which I'm sure makes me a racist.) I never warmed to Matt Smith or that annoying bitchy Amy Pond, and lost interest in watching.

Also, I have endless love for Jack, of course.

Billie piper's acting in the beginning of her run was terribad. (Like, Lynda Carter in the WW pilot bad). But she did get better.

Nu Who principal companion ranking
1) Donna (by far)
2) Ponds (but only together)
3) Martha
4) Rose
5) Clara
6) Bill

(With time, Bill could pull ahead of Clara. But time is what caused Clara to fall behind Rose; if she would have finished her run when she was supposed to, her ranking would have been improved)

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[dbcooper]

NuWho always sucked. So did OldWho except for it's charming low rentness and Tom Baker's scene chewing.

+1

NuWho is a war crime.

[Warren]

NuWho always sucked. So did OldWho except for it's charming low rentness and Tom Baker's scene chewing.

You fail to be incorrect sir.


ETA
Rose Tyler was the worst.

[lunchstealer]

There were a few fun episodes with Christopher Eccelston and David Tennant, and with Billie PIper and Catherine Tate as companions. (I never liked Martha as a companion, which I'm sure makes me a racist.) I never warmed to Matt Smith or that annoying bitchy Amy Pond, and lost interest in watching.

Also, I have endless love for Jack, of course.

You're why there's never been a redheaded Doctor.

End gingerphobia! Repent!

It's people like you what cause unrest.

Also, I keep seeing this ginger thing. It's clearly a thing. Is it supposed to be all ironical about how nobody knows who Colin Baker was?

[Eric the .5b]

There were a few fun episodes with Christopher Eccelston and David Tennant, and with Billie PIper and Catherine Tate as companions. (I never liked Martha as a companion, which I'm sure makes me a racist.) I never warmed to Matt Smith or that annoying bitchy Amy Pond, and lost interest in watching.

Also, I have endless love for Jack, of course.

You're why there's never been a redheaded Doctor.

End gingerphobia! Repent!

It's people like you what cause unrest.

Also, I keep seeing this ginger thing. It's clearly a thing. Is it supposed to be all ironical about how nobody knows who Colin Baker was?

A line from either Eccleston or Tennant's first episode, where the Doctor looks at himself for the first time, that regeneration, and tuts about how he's hoped he'd be ginger, this time.

[dead_elvis]

Is it supposed to be all ironical about how nobody knows who Colin Baker was?

I don't recall any other Doctors between Tom Baker and Eccleston. There were none.

[Jennifer]

The guys whining about #NurseWho on Twitter couldn't be more outraged if their own personal penes had been lost.

[lunchstealer]

Is it supposed to be all ironical about how nobody knows who Colin Baker was?

I don't recall any other Doctors between Tom Baker and Eccleston. There were none.

See, I have to separate the doctor from the shitshow writing. McCoy and Capaldi had some truly fucking AWFUL stories - Curse of Fenric was just such horrible shit that is an insult to shit - but I loved their characterizations of the Doctor. Grubby protuberances, bitches.

[lunchstealer]

(And I kind of like Tristan Farnon despite the whole emo shit thing)

[thoreau]

I thought that if they liked their Doctor then they could keep him.

Thanks Obama.

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[Dangerman]

Dr. Who is the tv version of listening to a hippy talk about this mushroom trip they had once.

[Fin Fang Foom]

Old Who atbleast did some weird shit occasionally, and they kept the fan service to a minimum.

[dead_elvis]

I thought that if they liked their Doctor then they could keep him.

Thanks Obama.

(goes down basement stairs, double checks that Eccleston is still shackled to the wall, comes back up)

Yes, thanks Obama!

[Sandy]

Also, I keep seeing this ginger thing. It's clearly a thing. Is it supposed to be all ironical about how nobody knows who Colin Baker was?

He was at most strawberry blond.

I wish he'd had some of the Douglas Adams-era quality scripts.

[Eric the .5b]

Old Who atbleast did some weird shit occasionally, and they kept the fan service to a minimum.

Which meaning of fan service are you going for, here?

[Hugh Akston]

If I'm still living here in 11 years I will deserve what I get.

[Jadagul]

Honestly, I feel like that could be kinda fun if I'm still here.

But then, I don't have work during the summer, so if it's too much of a clusterfuck I can just stay home for a week.