The Road to Damascus

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Aresen
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by Aresen » 20 Dec 2018, 16:47

nicole wrote:
20 Dec 2018, 16:43
wtf i love trump now

If Trump gets the US out of Afghanistan when St. Barry Obama didn't, he deserves the latter's Peace Prize.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

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thoreau
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by thoreau » 20 Dec 2018, 16:48

If he does that, the only thing that will keep me from jumping on the MAGA train is that I'm not convinced he knows enough to keep his own subordinates from undermining the order. Anyone who's actually followed the news during the GWOT knows that there are a whole lot of exceptions to "boots on the ground," a whole lot of people who don't count as "The Troops." And this isn't just a GWOT thing; there were apparently a whole lot of "contractors" in Vietnam after US troops allegedly withdrew.

It Trump orders The Troops to leave Afghanistan, there will be a whole lot of fresh-faced kids on their first enlistment who get photographed disembarking from planes. But I'm skeptical that Special Forces, contractors, CIA, etc. won't still be in Afghanistan in non-trivial numbers.

I hope I'm wrong. If I'm wrong, somebody buy me a MAGA hat.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Hugh Akston
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by Hugh Akston » 20 Dec 2018, 17:38

Could someone with a Twitter please @RealDonaldTrump and tell him that Hillary Clinton is on CNN saying that we should stay in Afghanistan forever.
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nicole
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by nicole » 20 Dec 2018, 17:55

Mattis is quitting over it but I'm still afraid to get my hopes up.
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Andrew
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by Andrew » 20 Dec 2018, 18:25

It's kinda amazing to watch Team Blue suddenly become pro-war in the span of 12 hours.
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thoreau
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by thoreau » 20 Dec 2018, 18:36

Andrew wrote:
20 Dec 2018, 18:25
It's kinda amazing to watch Team Blue suddenly become pro-war in the span of 12 hours.
You must have spent the Obama years in a place without TV, radio, internet, and newspapers.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
--Mo

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Eric the .5b
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by Eric the .5b » 20 Dec 2018, 19:36

thoreau wrote:
20 Dec 2018, 18:36
Andrew wrote:
20 Dec 2018, 18:25
It's kinda amazing to watch Team Blue suddenly become pro-war in the span of 12 hours.
You must have spent the Obama years in a place without TV, radio, internet, and newspapers.
That was pro-reasonable intervention and pro-kinetic military action, not pro-war.
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Hugh Akston
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by Hugh Akston » 20 Dec 2018, 22:32

Team Blue has also been pro-fingers-in-ears-singing-la-la-la-la-la since early 2009.
"Is a Lulztopia the best we can hope for?!?" ~Taktix®
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Eric the .5b
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by Eric the .5b » 20 Dec 2018, 23:18

Try early 1828.
"Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."
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Tuco
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by Tuco » 21 Dec 2018, 06:31

I'm cynical and skeptical and refuse to get my hopes up, but damn, if that orange fucker did that, it'd be good.

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Mo
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by Mo » 21 Dec 2018, 09:12

We may end up with a bad thing done for bad reasons as it may have been done to get Turkey to lay off KSA in exchange for letting them roll up on the Kurds. This is a classic Trump move. At a high level, a good idea that's defensible. On closer look the specifics get wonky (we primarily have trainers that act a tripwire to keep Turkey away). And you know the implementation will be terrible.
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Warren
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by Warren » 21 Dec 2018, 10:04

Mo wrote:
21 Dec 2018, 09:12
We may end up with a bad thing done for bad reasons as it may have been done to get Turkey to lay off KSA in exchange for letting them roll up on the Kurds. This is a classic Trump move. At a high level, a good idea that's defensible. On closer look the specifics get wonky (we primarily have trainers that act a tripwire to keep Turkey away). And you know the implementation will be terrible.
Still better than status quo. Orders of magnitude better than W and the chosen one, and thank god that war mongering cunt didn't get in.
It's dumb out there kids, keep your heads down. - JasonL

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Mo
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by Mo » 21 Dec 2018, 10:11

If the Turks roll in and start slaughtering Kurds, it's not better. If you do a well-defined and planned pullout with negotiated settlements with the Turks and the Kurds, you can get something a bit cleaner.

ETA: OTOH, just dipping out of Afghanistan would be fine at this point.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

no one ever yells worldstar when a pet gets fucked up - dhex

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Aresen
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by Aresen » 21 Dec 2018, 10:41

Mo wrote:
21 Dec 2018, 10:11
If the Turks roll in and start slaughtering Kurds, it's not better. If you do a well-defined and planned pullout with negotiated settlements with the Turks and the Kurds, you can get something a bit cleaner.

ETA: OTOH, just dipping out of Afghanistan would be fine at this point.
The Kurds are screwed. That is obvious. I cannot see any scenario, other than an eternal US or other presence in the region, that can or would prevent that eventually. Unless the US or NATO wants to get involved in setting up yet another ethno-state in the region. (Which would probably be just as dystopic as all the others.)
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

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Warren
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by Warren » 21 Dec 2018, 10:45

America: World Police / Nation Builder has been a misguided undertaking. The Mid-East most especially. The less involved we are the better.
It's dumb out there kids, keep your heads down. - JasonL

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tr0g
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by tr0g » 21 Dec 2018, 11:29

There's two options as I see the Middle East. Take it all over and stay forever, or kill a bunch of assholes once a generation and leave.
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by Kolohe » 21 Dec 2018, 19:08

Eric the .5b wrote:
20 Dec 2018, 19:36
thoreau wrote:
20 Dec 2018, 18:36
Andrew wrote:
20 Dec 2018, 18:25
It's kinda amazing to watch Team Blue suddenly become pro-war in the span of 12 hours.
You must have spent the Obama years in a place without TV, radio, internet, and newspapers.
That was pro-reasonable intervention and pro-kinetic military action, not pro-war.
This. Seriously.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Kolohe
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by Kolohe » 21 Dec 2018, 19:11

Mo wrote:
21 Dec 2018, 10:11
If the Turks roll in and start slaughtering Kurds, it's not better. If you do a well-defined and planned pullout with negotiated settlements with the Turks and the Kurds, you can get something a bit cleaner.
We couldn't get the Kurds and Turks to play nice when we were the imperial governor of Iraq and Turkey was still a core NATO ally seeking EU membership.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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tr0g
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by tr0g » 23 Dec 2018, 13:33

Kolohe wrote:
21 Dec 2018, 19:11
Mo wrote:
21 Dec 2018, 10:11
If the Turks roll in and start slaughtering Kurds, it's not better. If you do a well-defined and planned pullout with negotiated settlements with the Turks and the Kurds, you can get something a bit cleaner.
We couldn't get the Kurds and Turks to play nice when we were the imperial governor of Iraq and Turkey was still a core NATO ally seeking EU membership.
Let's just arm up the Kurds to make it prohibitively expensive for the Turks to try anything. Something something balance of power something mutually assured destruction whatever.
Yeah but how can you tell at a glance which junk a raccoon is packing? Also, gay raccoons? - Hugh Akston
Nothing you can say is as important as the existence of a functioning marketplace of ideas, go set yourself on fire. - JasonL

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Warren
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by Warren » 23 Dec 2018, 13:56

tr0g wrote:
23 Dec 2018, 13:33
Kolohe wrote:
21 Dec 2018, 19:11
Mo wrote:
21 Dec 2018, 10:11
If the Turks roll in and start slaughtering Kurds, it's not better. If you do a well-defined and planned pullout with negotiated settlements with the Turks and the Kurds, you can get something a bit cleaner.
We couldn't get the Kurds and Turks to play nice when we were the imperial governor of Iraq and Turkey was still a core NATO ally seeking EU membership.
Let's just arm up the Kurds to make it prohibitively expensive for the Turks to try anything. Something something balance of power something mutually assured destruction whatever.
Let's not. Nothing good comes of supplying arms to any faction in the Mid East.
It's dumb out there kids, keep your heads down. - JasonL

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Aresen
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by Aresen » 23 Dec 2018, 15:45

Warren wrote:
23 Dec 2018, 13:56
tr0g wrote:
23 Dec 2018, 13:33
Kolohe wrote:
21 Dec 2018, 19:11
Mo wrote:
21 Dec 2018, 10:11
If the Turks roll in and start slaughtering Kurds, it's not better. If you do a well-defined and planned pullout with negotiated settlements with the Turks and the Kurds, you can get something a bit cleaner.
We couldn't get the Kurds and Turks to play nice when we were the imperial governor of Iraq and Turkey was still a core NATO ally seeking EU membership.
Let's just arm up the Kurds to make it prohibitively expensive for the Turks to try anything. Something something balance of power something mutually assured destruction whatever.
Let's not. Nothing good comes of supplying arms to any faction in the Mid East.
Team Warren.

This is especially true for countries with names starting with 'I'.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

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lunchstealer
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by lunchstealer » 23 Dec 2018, 19:29

Aresen wrote:
23 Dec 2018, 15:45
Warren wrote:
23 Dec 2018, 13:56
tr0g wrote:
23 Dec 2018, 13:33
Kolohe wrote:
21 Dec 2018, 19:11
Mo wrote:
21 Dec 2018, 10:11
If the Turks roll in and start slaughtering Kurds, it's not better. If you do a well-defined and planned pullout with negotiated settlements with the Turks and the Kurds, you can get something a bit cleaner.
We couldn't get the Kurds and Turks to play nice when we were the imperial governor of Iraq and Turkey was still a core NATO ally seeking EU membership.
Let's just arm up the Kurds to make it prohibitively expensive for the Turks to try anything. Something something balance of power something mutually assured destruction whatever.
Let's not. Nothing good comes of supplying arms to any faction in the Mid East.
Team Warren.

This is especially true for countries with names starting with 'I'.
I kinda wanna invade Iceland now.
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Aresen
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by Aresen » 23 Dec 2018, 19:36

lunchstealer wrote:
23 Dec 2018, 19:29
Aresen wrote:
23 Dec 2018, 15:45
Warren wrote:
23 Dec 2018, 13:56
tr0g wrote:
23 Dec 2018, 13:33
Kolohe wrote:
21 Dec 2018, 19:11
Mo wrote:
21 Dec 2018, 10:11
If the Turks roll in and start slaughtering Kurds, it's not better. If you do a well-defined and planned pullout with negotiated settlements with the Turks and the Kurds, you can get something a bit cleaner.
We couldn't get the Kurds and Turks to play nice when we were the imperial governor of Iraq and Turkey was still a core NATO ally seeking EU membership.
Let's just arm up the Kurds to make it prohibitively expensive for the Turks to try anything. Something something balance of power something mutually assured destruction whatever.
Let's not. Nothing good comes of supplying arms to any faction in the Mid East.
Team Warren.

This is especially true for countries with names starting with 'I'.
I kinda wanna invade Iceland now.
At least wait for the Summer Solstice.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

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Warren
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by Warren » 23 Dec 2018, 19:39

I'm good with invading Iceland. What could possibly go wrong?
It's dumb out there kids, keep your heads down. - JasonL

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thoreau
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by thoreau » 23 Dec 2018, 21:41

Let's arm the Incas.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
--Mo

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