The Road to Damascus

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Pham Nuwen
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by Pham Nuwen » 08 Sep 2018, 23:27

Go watch the killing fields. WE will all be here waiting for your wailing while a pumpkin spice latte is in your hand. Also. Should be wearing yoga pants while you wail.
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Jennifer
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by Jennifer » 08 Sep 2018, 23:39

Anthony Bourdain wrote:Once you’ve been to Cambodia, you’ll never stop wanting to beat Henry Kissinger to death with your bare hands. You will never again be able to open a newspaper and read about that treacherous, prevaricating, murderous scumbag sitting down for a nice chat with Charlie Rose or attending some black-tie affair for a new glossy magazine without choking. Witness what Henry did in Cambodia – the fruits of his genius for statesmanship – and you will never understand why he’s not sitting in the dock at The Hague next to Milošević.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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Kolohe
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by Kolohe » 09 Sep 2018, 06:10

I've really come to dislike takes like that. It totally denies the agency of those that actually committed the crimes, or otherwise made things awful, in whatever country the United States is supposedly responsible for breaking.
Talk about orientalism.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Pham Nuwen
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by Pham Nuwen » 09 Sep 2018, 08:32

Kolohe wrote:
09 Sep 2018, 06:10
Talk about orientalism.
Rugs?
Goddamn libertarian message board. Hugh Akston

leave me to my mescaline smoothie in peace, please. dhex

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nicole
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by nicole » 09 Sep 2018, 09:06

Kolohe wrote:
09 Sep 2018, 06:10
I've really come to dislike takes like that. It totally denies the agency of those that actually committed the crimes, or otherwise made things awful, in whatever country the United States is supposedly responsible for breaking.
Talk about orientalism.
For a minute I thought you were talking about the soldiers.
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Warren
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by Warren » 09 Sep 2018, 10:17

Kolohe wrote:
09 Sep 2018, 06:10
I've really come to dislike takes like that. It totally denies the agency of those that actually committed the crimes, or otherwise made things awful, in whatever country the United States is supposedly responsible for breaking.
Talk about orientalism.
Okay, but I think it's right and proper to lay a not insignificant share of the blame at the feet of the the guy who unleashed the rabid dogs.
It's dumb out there kids, keep your heads down. - JasonL

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Ellie
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by Ellie » 09 Sep 2018, 10:20

Pham Nuwen wrote:
08 Sep 2018, 23:27
Go watch the killing fields. WE will all be here waiting for your wailing while a pumpkin spice latte is in your hand. Also. Should be wearing yoga pants while you wail.
If I shy away from a cartoon kids' movie called All Dogs Go To Heaven because it sounds like it's too death-y, do you really think you can talk me into seeing a movie called The Killing Fields? :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Pham Nuwen
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by Pham Nuwen » 09 Sep 2018, 12:15

Ellie wrote:
09 Sep 2018, 10:20
Pham Nuwen wrote:
08 Sep 2018, 23:27
Go watch the killing fields. WE will all be here waiting for your wailing while a pumpkin spice latte is in your hand. Also. Should be wearing yoga pants while you wail.
If I shy away from a cartoon kids' movie called All Dogs Go To Heaven because it sounds like it's too death-y, do you really think you can talk me into seeing a movie called The Killing Fields? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Its not all about the name. It's a heart moving film about how all the intellectuals get together in fields to escape the drudgery of rigorous academic study. It was a pretty big deal. Some just looked intelligent and went to the fields. Very accepting lot of folks.
Goddamn libertarian message board. Hugh Akston

leave me to my mescaline smoothie in peace, please. dhex

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Warren
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by Warren » 09 Sep 2018, 13:11

Pham Nuwen wrote:
09 Sep 2018, 12:15
Ellie wrote:
09 Sep 2018, 10:20
Pham Nuwen wrote:
08 Sep 2018, 23:27
Go watch the killing fields. WE will all be here waiting for your wailing while a pumpkin spice latte is in your hand. Also. Should be wearing yoga pants while you wail.
If I shy away from a cartoon kids' movie called All Dogs Go To Heaven because it sounds like it's too death-y, do you really think you can talk me into seeing a movie called The Killing Fields? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Its not all about the name. It's a heart moving film about how all the intellectuals get together in fields to escape the drudgery of rigorous academic study. It was a pretty big deal. Some just looked intelligent and went to the fields. Very accepting lot of folks.
When the American invited his slope head friend to the fields, I cried with national pride.
It's dumb out there kids, keep your heads down. - JasonL

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Jennifer
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by Jennifer » 09 Sep 2018, 16:33

Warren wrote:
09 Sep 2018, 10:17
Kolohe wrote:
09 Sep 2018, 06:10
I've really come to dislike takes like that. It totally denies the agency of those that actually committed the crimes, or otherwise made things awful, in whatever country the United States is supposedly responsible for breaking.
Talk about orientalism.
Okay, but I think it's right and proper to lay a not insignificant share of the blame at the feet of the the guy who unleashed the rabid dogs.
I whole-heartedly and non-ironically agree with Warren, here.

IMO, bombing Cambodia would've been a war crime even if it hadn't destabilized the country bad enough to leave a power vacuum filled by the Khmer Rouge.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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Kolohe
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by Kolohe » 09 Sep 2018, 17:33

Not every act of war is a war crime. Nor is every act of war that turns out to be ineffective or outright counterproductive.

eta - though I don't want to dismiss the significant violations of the US Constitution that may have happened with the Nixon administration expanding the war to Cambodia without Congressional approval. (which brings everything around to what the heck are we doing in Syria right now)
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Hugh Akston
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by Hugh Akston » 09 Sep 2018, 19:41

nicole wrote:
09 Sep 2018, 09:06
Kolohe wrote:
09 Sep 2018, 06:10
I've really come to dislike takes like that. It totally denies the agency of those that actually committed the crimes, or otherwise made things awful, in whatever country the United States is supposedly responsible for breaking.
Talk about orientalism.
For a minute I thought you were talking about the soldiers.
The bombing of Cambodia was an Air Force operation, so he was probably referring to the airmen.
"Is a Lulztopia the best we can hope for?!?" ~Taktix®
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Jennifer
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by Jennifer » 09 Sep 2018, 20:43

Kolohe wrote:
09 Sep 2018, 17:33
eta - though I don't want to dismiss the significant violations of the US Constitution that may have happened with the Nixon administration expanding the war to Cambodia without Congressional approval.
Or without even letting anybody (other than the Cambodians, natch) know the bombings were going on.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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Hugh Akston
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by Hugh Akston » 19 Dec 2018, 15:42

Holy Shit
President Trump has ordered a rapid withdrawal of all 2,000 United States ground troops from Syria within 30 days, declaring the four-year American-led war against the Islamic State as largely won, officials said Wednesday.

“We have defeated ISIS in Syria, my only reason for being there during the Trump Presidency,” the president said in a Twitter post on Wednesday morning. He offered no details on his plans for the military mission, nor a larger strategy, in Syria.
Even better:
Abandoning the American-backed Kurdish allies, Pentagon officials have argued, will hamper future efforts by the United States to gain the trust of local fighters, from Afghanistan to Yemen to Somalia.
If this is what Trump being a Kremlin puppet looks like, I'm fine with it.
"Is a Lulztopia the best we can hope for?!?" ~Taktix®
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by lunchstealer » 19 Dec 2018, 16:04

It's actually Trump being an Erdogan puppet, but yeah.
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Aresen
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by Aresen » 19 Dec 2018, 16:24

I don't like getting involved in foreign quarrels, but the Kurds are being used like asswipe.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by lunchstealer » 19 Dec 2018, 19:37

Aresen wrote:
19 Dec 2018, 16:24
I don't like getting involved in foreign quarrels, but the Kurds are being used like asswipe.
The Montagnards look up, shake their heads, and go back to their business.
"The constitution is more of a BDSM agreement with a safe word." - Sandy

"Neoliberalism. Austerity. Booga booga!!!!" - JasonL

"We can't confirm rumors that Lynndie England is in the running to be Gina Haspel's personal aide." - DAR

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Andrew
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by Andrew » 19 Dec 2018, 19:43

Hugh Akston wrote:
19 Dec 2018, 15:42
Abandoning the American-backed Kurdish allies, Pentagon officials have argued, will hamper future efforts by the United States to gain the trust of local fighters, from Afghanistan to Yemen to Somalia.
If Trump orders a rapid withdrawal from those places (and Iraq), then he should get Obama's peace prize.
We live in the fucked age. Get used to it. - dhex

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Mo
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by Mo » 20 Dec 2018, 09:57

Andrew wrote:
19 Dec 2018, 19:43
Hugh Akston wrote:
19 Dec 2018, 15:42
Abandoning the American-backed Kurdish allies, Pentagon officials have argued, will hamper future efforts by the United States to gain the trust of local fighters, from Afghanistan to Yemen to Somalia.
If Trump orders a rapid withdrawal from those places (and Iraq), then he should get Obama's peace prize.
I worry that announcing it like it's a surprise challenge on the Apprentice, instead of forcing stakeholders to lay out an orderly plan hamstring future administrations from doing this because of the negative connotations and impacts.

I support having fewer prisoners behind bars, but I would also be against throwing open the front door one morning and saying, "First 1,000 people out the door are free!"
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Hugh Akston
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by Hugh Akston » 20 Dec 2018, 10:15

Mo wrote:
20 Dec 2018, 09:57
Andrew wrote:
19 Dec 2018, 19:43
Hugh Akston wrote:
19 Dec 2018, 15:42
Abandoning the American-backed Kurdish allies, Pentagon officials have argued, will hamper future efforts by the United States to gain the trust of local fighters, from Afghanistan to Yemen to Somalia.
If Trump orders a rapid withdrawal from those places (and Iraq), then he should get Obama's peace prize.
I worry that announcing it like it's a surprise challenge on the Apprentice, instead of forcing stakeholders to lay out an orderly plan hamstring future administrations from doing this because of the negative connotations and impacts.

I support having fewer prisoners behind bars, but I would also be against throwing open the front door one morning and saying, "First 1,000 people out the door are free!"
Hamstring future administrations from doing what?
"Is a Lulztopia the best we can hope for?!?" ~Taktix®
"Somali pirates are beholden to their hostages in a way that the USG is not." ~Dangerman

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thoreau
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by thoreau » 20 Dec 2018, 10:34

It is far from a perfect withdrawal but it is a withdrawal.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
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Aresen
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by Aresen » 20 Dec 2018, 10:47

thoreau wrote:
20 Dec 2018, 10:34
It is far from a perfect withdrawal but it is a withdrawal.
I agree, but I honestly cannot see any other way that does not have potentially worse consequences or leave the door open for new or renewed involvement in Syria or elsewhere in the future.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Those who know history are doomed to deja vu. - the innominate one

Never bring a knife to a joke fight" - dhex

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thoreau
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by thoreau » 20 Dec 2018, 11:21

What I do wonder is just how much of a withdrawal it is. Special Forces don't count as "boots on the ground." Contractors don't count either. The CIA certainly doesn't.

US Intelligence will obviously maintain a presence there. That's a given. They will almost certainly, from time to time, provide deniable support on some scale to somebody or other. They pretty much have to if they want to get information. From time to time a drone will do something that only kills combatants, people old enough to be presumed combatants, and people who were in the vicinity of combatants, but nobody that "Unnamed US Officials" will designate as non-combatants.

But beyond that, how much bigger will the footprint be? And there's no way Trump understands this. He'll be shown video of US troops boarding planes, he'll get a photo op, and he'll be assured that The Troops are all home and the only remaining US presence in Syria is a small contingent of intelligence assets. But he doesn't pay enough attention to the news to know how shallow that promise is.
"They were basically like D&D min maxers, but instead of pissing off their DM, they destroyed the global economy. Also, instead of their DM making a level 7 paladin fight a beholder as punishment, he got a +3 sword of turning."
--Mo

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Shem
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by Shem » 20 Dec 2018, 15:13

lunchstealer wrote:
19 Dec 2018, 16:04
It's actually Trump being an Erdogan puppet, but yeah.
It's both.
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nicole
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Re: The Road to Damascus

Post by nicole » 20 Dec 2018, 16:43

wtf i love trump now

"Fucking qualia." -Hugh Akston

"Sliced bagels aren't why trump won; it's why it doesn't matter who wins." -dhex

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