Have you accepted Nothing as your lord and savior?

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Re: Have you accepted Nothing as your lord and savior?

Post by Aresen » 08 Apr 2018, 00:05

A Sign from Nowhere:

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Re: Have you accepted Nothing as your lord and savior?

Post by Jadagul » 08 Apr 2018, 18:05

Kolohe wrote:
07 Apr 2018, 22:58
Jadagul wrote:
07 Apr 2018, 18:42
I mean, it used to be reasonably common to memorize large portions of the Baltimore Catechism.

But that's the point. Protestants memorize the Bible; Catholics memorize the Catechism.
Sorry, I meant I never heard of sword drills. I memorized a whole bunch of stuff in CCD (but I was always kind of good at that, when I was younger)
Yeah, I got that. I was suggesting that "memorize the Catechism" was a better match than "Saints' lives trivia." But they're both very non-Protestant.

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Re: Have you accepted Nothing as your lord and savior?

Post by Aresen » 16 Oct 2018, 11:48

Leonard French discusses an interesting lawsuit:

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Re: Have you accepted Nothing as your lord and savior?

Post by Hugh Akston » 12 Jan 2019, 04:47

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Re: Have you accepted Nothing as your lord and savior?

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 12 Jan 2019, 13:27

Jadagul wrote:
06 Apr 2018, 19:27
Jennifer wrote:
06 Apr 2018, 15:24
Ellie's comment made me realize -- yeah, attempts at rewriting the Bible in various forms DOES seem to be a Protestant thing; I don't recall any Catholic versions of "Extreme Bibles" or "Hip-Hop Bibles" or "The Groovy Bible for Groovy Hippies" or anything like that.
The Catholic Church has historically believed that the Bible was difficult enough that asking/allowing lay people to read it directly was a recipe for them getting confused and lead astray. Thus they should instead listen to the readings in Church where the priest could explain to them how to think about it properly.

The Protestants were historically a lot more focused on allowing/encouraging individuals to read and interpret the Bible for themselves. This is why they had such an emphasis on literacy.
Where "a recipe for them getting confused and lead astray" reads "disobey church authorities." Though in fairness to the Roman Catholic Church, most people were, after all, illiterate even during the Protestant Reformation but, yes, that's why Protestants have historically stressed literacy and also why, in significant measure, public schools in the U.S. were initially supported.

Having not so much given up on that particular tactic as realized most laypeople won't read the Bible regardless, the RCs did come up with the Douay-Rheims translation and later the New Jerusalem Bible, but I doubt they were actually read by most Roman Catholics. As comedian Kathleen Madigan put it, "We don't read the Bible. That's why we have priests; to give us book reports."

Related, when the Revised Standard Version began replacing the King James Version of the Bible, at least one Episcopal priest (and I'm sure there are others who reacted the same way) was berated by his congregation, demanding that the lessons be read "in the original." So the following week he read the Old Testament lessons in Aramaic and the New Testament in Koine Greek.

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Re: Have you accepted Nothing as your lord and savior?

Post by Warren » 12 Jan 2019, 14:04

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Re: Have you accepted Nothing as your lord and savior?

Post by Hugh Akston » 12 Jan 2019, 14:51

Regarding the lady at the end of the Vice video, is the United Church of Canada a Unitarian thing, or is it a Canadian brand of Anglicanism with its own canon of saints like Wayne Gretzky and Tim Horton?
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Re: Have you accepted Nothing as your lord and savior?

Post by Aresen » 12 Jan 2019, 15:14

Hugh Akston wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 14:51
Regarding the lady at the end of the Vice video, is the United Church of Canada a Unitarian thing, or is it a Canadian brand of Anglicanism with its own canon of saints like Wayne Gretzky and Tim Horton?
It's a bunch of Protestant denominations that got together in the 1920s or 1930s - Methodists, Episcopalians, Satanists - you know, the usual lot. They're very establishment with the usual conservative-liberal thing.

(I may have a few details wrong. google them for more info.)
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Re: Have you accepted Nothing as your lord and savior?

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 12 Jan 2019, 15:15

The Anglican Church of Canada is the Canadian equivalent of the Episcopal Church in the U.S.; that is, the official constituent member of the Anglican Communion.

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Re: Have you accepted Nothing as your lord and savior?

Post by Hugh Akston » 12 Jan 2019, 15:20

Aresen wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 15:14
Hugh Akston wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 14:51
Regarding the lady at the end of the Vice video, is the United Church of Canada a Unitarian thing, or is it a Canadian brand of Anglicanism with its own canon of saints like Wayne Gretzky and Tim Horton?
It's a bunch of Protestant denominations that got together in the 1920s or 1930s - Methodists, Episcopalians, Satanists - you know, the usual lot. They're very establishment with the usual conservative-liberal thing.

(I may have a few details wrong. google them for more info.)
But they definitely adjust the theology for the audience, right? Like Jesus turning water into Molson or feeding the multitudes with only one order of poutine. Lazarus was resurrected by the provincial healthcare system?
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Re: Have you accepted Nothing as your lord and savior?

Post by Warren » 12 Jan 2019, 15:30

Hugh Akston wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 15:20
Aresen wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 15:14
Hugh Akston wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 14:51
Regarding the lady at the end of the Vice video, is the United Church of Canada a Unitarian thing, or is it a Canadian brand of Anglicanism with its own canon of saints like Wayne Gretzky and Tim Horton?
It's a bunch of Protestant denominations that got together in the 1920s or 1930s - Methodists, Episcopalians, Satanists - you know, the usual lot. They're very establishment with the usual conservative-liberal thing.

(I may have a few details wrong. google them for more info.)
But they definitely adjust the theology for the audience, right? Like Jesus turning water into Molson or feeding the multitudes with only one order of poutine. Lazarus was resurrected by the provincial healthcare system?
The Lord then took the back bacon saying "This is the flesh of my flesh" and then he took the maple syrup saying "This is the blood of my blood". "For so often as ye eat this back bacon and real maple syrup, do so in remembrance of me".
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Re: Have you accepted Nothing as your lord and savior?

Post by Aresen » 12 Jan 2019, 15:31

Hugh Akston wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 15:20
Aresen wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 15:14
Hugh Akston wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 14:51
Regarding the lady at the end of the Vice video, is the United Church of Canada a Unitarian thing, or is it a Canadian brand of Anglicanism with its own canon of saints like Wayne Gretzky and Tim Horton?
It's a bunch of Protestant denominations that got together in the 1920s or 1930s - Methodists, Episcopalians, Satanists - you know, the usual lot. They're very establishment with the usual conservative-liberal thing.

(I may have a few details wrong. google them for more info.)
But they definitely adjust the theology for the audience, right? Like Jesus turning water into Molson or feeding the multitudes with only one order of poutine. Lazarus was resurrected by the provincial healthcare system?
For the first two, you're thinking of Canadian Catholicism.

Canadian Protestants believe Jesus turned the water into Labatt's and fed the multitudes with Ketchup-flavoured potato chips. [Except for Canadian Anglicans, for whom it is Canadian Club and Stoned Wheat Thins.]

All denominations accept the resurrection of Lazarus by provincial healthcare. And that Christ spent three days in the US after his Crucifixion.

(Warren has the communion rite correct.)
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Re: Have you accepted Nothing as your lord and savior?

Post by Ellie » 12 Jan 2019, 18:19

Jadagul wrote:The Catholic Church has historically believed that the Bible was difficult enough that asking/allowing lay people to read it directly was a recipe for them getting confused and lead astray.
Warren wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 14:04
[Julia Sweeney -- Letting Go of God]
The first time I heard Julia Sweeney's story about becoming an atheist was on This American Life -- specifically, about how she lost her faith over the course of a Bible study she was taking at her Catholic Church where they read the whole Bible straight through. I was still Catholic at the time and remember thinking, "Oh, shit! Don't just READ the Bible! You'll definitely end up getting disillusioned with religion!" :lol:

(and no, it never occurred to me to question my own faith when acknowledging the fact that the Bible is weird and messed up. Because I was Catholic, so the Bible doesn't matter, obvs!)
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Re: Have you accepted Nothing as your lord and savior?

Post by Warren » 12 Jan 2019, 19:13

Ellie wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 18:19
Jadagul wrote:The Catholic Church has historically believed that the Bible was difficult enough that asking/allowing lay people to read it directly was a recipe for them getting confused and lead astray.
Warren wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 14:04
[Julia Sweeney -- Letting Go of God]
The first time I heard Julia Sweeney's story about becoming an atheist was on This American Life -- specifically, about how she lost her faith over the course of a Bible study she was taking at her Catholic Church where they read the whole Bible straight through. I was still Catholic at the time and remember thinking, "Oh, shit! Don't just READ the Bible! You'll definitely end up getting disillusioned with religion!" :lol:

(and no, it never occurred to me to question my own faith when acknowledging the fact that the Bible is weird and messed up. Because I was Catholic, so the Bible doesn't matter, obvs!)
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Re: Have you accepted Nothing as your lord and savior?

Post by Number 6 » 12 Jan 2019, 21:02

Ellie wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 18:19
Jadagul wrote:The Catholic Church has historically believed that the Bible was difficult enough that asking/allowing lay people to read it directly was a recipe for them getting confused and lead astray.
Warren wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 14:04
[Julia Sweeney -- Letting Go of God]
The first time I heard Julia Sweeney's story about becoming an atheist was on This American Life -- specifically, about how she lost her faith over the course of a Bible study she was taking at her Catholic Church where they read the whole Bible straight through. I was still Catholic at the time and remember thinking, "Oh, shit! Don't just READ the Bible! You'll definitely end up getting disillusioned with religion!" :lol:

(and no, it never occurred to me to question my own faith when acknowledging the fact that the Bible is weird and messed up. Because I was Catholic, so the Bible doesn't matter, obvs!)
I somehow missed this one. I'm enjoying quite a bit, and as a bonus, indoctrinating the kiddo in the ways of Evil Agnosticism.(tm)
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Re: Have you accepted Nothing as your lord and savior?

Post by Kolohe » 24 Jan 2019, 13:59

The Catholic Church leaning into the MAGA world is almost as bad a long term strategic decision as Bibi leaning into it. (and only because Bibi has something more existential at stake)
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Re: Have you accepted Nothing as your lord and savior?

Post by thoreau » 24 Jan 2019, 14:02

I don't think there's anything that Israel can do that would drive away enough members of Congress to matter. Yeah, yeah, a few Blue back-benchers will say something about settlements, but even the Nazi wing of the GOP likes the idea of Israel existing so that all of the Jews are together in a place that is (1) not here and (2) surrounded by enemies.
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Re: Have you accepted Nothing as your lord and savior?

Post by Kolohe » 24 Jan 2019, 15:24

I've come around to the point of view that the generational shift which is going to happen when PLO cold war terrorism is a distant or nonexistent memory but Bibi & Trump BFF is recent memory could alter the political balance.
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Re: Have you accepted Nothing as your lord and savior?

Post by lunchstealer » 24 Jan 2019, 16:34

Kolohe wrote:
24 Jan 2019, 15:24
I've come around to the point of view that the generational shift which is going to happen when PLO cold war terrorism is a distant or nonexistent memory but Bibi & Trump BFF is recent memory could alter the political balance.
You have to get beyond the Muslims-as-bogeyman thing, first. As long as 9/11!, you can keep the with-us-or-against-us thing alive, and fighting against Arabs and Muslims puts Israel in the 'with us' column for everyone through the Millennials and probably everyone who'll be old enough to remember US forces coming under attack in Afghanistan, so probably everyone born in the next 20 years, minimum.
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Re: Have you accepted Nothing as your lord and savior?

Post by Mo » 27 Jan 2019, 18:06

lunchstealer wrote:
Kolohe wrote:
24 Jan 2019, 15:24
I've come around to the point of view that the generational shift which is going to happen when PLO cold war terrorism is a distant or nonexistent memory but Bibi & Trump BFF is recent memory could alter the political balance.
You have to get beyond the Muslims-as-bogeyman thing, first. As long as 9/11!, you can keep the with-us-or-against-us thing alive, and fighting against Arabs and Muslims puts Israel in the 'with us' column for everyone through the Millennials and probably everyone who'll be old enough to remember US forces coming under attack in Afghanistan, so probably everyone born in the next 20 years, minimum.
Bibi giving the speech to Congress and snubbing Obama was the first misstep. Turning support for Israel into a partisan issue, with the party with the vast majority of Jews turning on you is unwise. Also, it doesn’t help that the party that you picked also has the larger anti-Semite population.
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Re: Have you accepted Nothing as your lord and savior?

Post by thoreau » 27 Jan 2019, 18:41

The anti-Semite wing of the GOP isn't exactly pro-Arab or even pro-Iran (Aryan though they may be). They seem to have made their peace with the idea that there is a place where Jews can go that is on the other side of the globe and spends a lot of resources on messing with Arabs and Muslims.

So I'm not sure that Israel has much to fear from the GOP. From Israel's perspective, the least savory elements of the GOP are far away and not getting in the way of anything that matters.

And as long as Jews vote Blue, the Dems will be supportive of Israel. And Jews will keep voting Blue as long as the GOP has the larger anti-Semite population.
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Re: Have you accepted Nothing as your lord and savior?

Post by Aresen » 27 Jan 2019, 18:46

You have to admit, the GOP alienating both the Jews and the Muslims is a special kind of stupid.
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Re: Have you accepted Nothing as your lord and savior?

Post by Jasper » 28 Jan 2019, 15:24

So yesterday we were invited to a friend's baby's baptism, which is fine, because we're considered an aunt & uncle and we like them and it's the thing to do.

Only it wasn't really a baptism in a catholic, head-dunkin' way, as I'm used to, it was a naming ceremony in some protestant domination, and the church was more like a small concert hall or theater than an actual church.

We got there a little late, so the mass... if it can be called a mass, was already underway in the 'Worship Hall'. We had some slight difficulty finding the worship hall, because there wasn't clear signage in the lobby. We eventually realized that a corridor between the daycare and the cafe led to the place of worship.

The intro yacht rock song was in progress, but we found our way to our friends, and watched the show. The band was pretty good, as all the swaying and outstretched hands indicated. Then there was brief welcome speech by some guy in jeans and a cowboy shirt before we sat through a 5 minute video about the youth outreach & camp program. The band came back out and we had to stand (I think it's a requirement for standing Os at this church) for another song about how Jesus is great and a savior. At least the supertitles made it easy to sing along.

Then all the new parents lined up on stage and committed their barely-aware babies to a Life of Christ. Only then did it dawn on me that Cowboy shirt was the pastor. I didn't recognize him from our friends' wedding because he actually wore a suit then.

After they filed off, the lights dimmed and I thought we were going to see a Marvel CU movie, only I realized that the comic book frames flashing on the screen all had biblical names; Abraham, Noah, Issac... Cowboy Pastor came back out and started his sermon and it turns out it was Part 1 of a 5-week course of faith heroes, based on Hebrews 11. (Hence the Marvel-ey introduction.) 15 minutes of ya' gotta' have faith, faith, FAITH. It got really metaphory toward the end, as he focused on being a faith hero, and not just having reverence for those old dead dudes. They had passed the baton of their faith onto their kids and neighbors, and so on and so such, through all the generations, and the baton has been passed to you, and when you finally meet your Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and pass the baton back to Him, He'll tell you, "good job."

Communion was weird. They passed around plates of The Body of Christ and tiny shot glasses of The Blood of the Lamb, while the band played some soft filler.

Cowboy Pastor came back on and reminded everyone about the weekly meetings and the special prayer group on Thursdays, and wished everyone a happy day.

Band came out for their last encore, and really rocked the place out.

At least the catered food, small talk, and awkwardness at the friends' house afterwards was normal.
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Re: Have you accepted Nothing as your lord and savior?

Post by Mo » 28 Jan 2019, 15:42

Aresen wrote:You have to admit, the GOP alienating both the Jews and the Muslims is a special kind of stupid.
That explains their love for Christopher Columbus.
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Re: Have you accepted Nothing as your lord and savior?

Post by lunchstealer » 28 Jan 2019, 15:44

Even in sane* protestant congregations (alt-RCC denominations like Anglipalian and Lutheran probably excepted) the service is called a 'service' rather than 'mass'.

Yeah, megachurches and minimegachurches are just weird if you grew up with a real church.

If god were alive I think he'd be kinda embarrassed.
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