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Silent (Trumpista) Spring

Posted: 28 Feb 2018, 19:52
by Kwix
I love how Trump comes out against bump stocks and for preemptive confiscation of weapons without due process and the loudest Trumpistas (Ken, John, et al) are nowhere to be seen.

Re: Silent (Trumpista) Spring

Posted: 28 Feb 2018, 19:56
by thoreau
I'd like to think that this will be the thing that turns the base on Trump, but Trumpism is about groups and identities over issues and principles. Trump doesn't want the cops to take guns away from good, God-fearing white guys if they're employed and reasonably well-behaved (at least on paper). He wants cops to take guns away from punk kids who are clearly up to no good.

Yeah, yeah, we can ask how we can trust the cops to tell the difference, but Trumpistas don't think that way. They think of the good guys with guns (and cops are good guys with guns) standing up to the punks.

So Trump will get away with this as long as it is just rhetoric that doesn't translate into signed legislation.

Re: Silent (Trumpista) Spring

Posted: 28 Feb 2018, 21:51
by Aresen
Who among libertarians is really surprised at Trump's comments?

I have no idea how the always "republican and conservative" John is going to rationalize this:
John Kluge wrote:Let me say up front that I am a lifelong Republican and conservative. I have never voted for a Democrat in my life and have voted in every presidential and midterm election since 1988. I have never in my life considered myself anything but a conservative. I am pained to admit that the conservative media and many conservatives’ reaction to Donald Trump has caused me to no longer consider myself part of the movement.
but I have no doubt he will find a way to do so. He is a militery loyer after all.

Re: Silent (Trumpista) Spring

Posted: 28 Feb 2018, 23:41
by Warren
Aresen wrote:
28 Feb 2018, 21:51
Who among libertarians is really surprised at Trump's comments?

I have no idea how the always "republican and conservative" John is going to rationalize this:
John Kluge wrote:Let me say up front that I am a lifelong Republican and conservative. I have never voted for a Democrat in my life and have voted in every presidential and midterm election since 1988. I have never in my life considered myself anything but a conservative. I am pained to admit that the conservative media and many conservatives’ reaction to Donald Trump has caused me to no longer consider myself part of the movement.
but I have no doubt he will find a way to do so. He is a militery loyer after all.
Or not. He can just ignore it. Or he can embrace it. Reversing one's position is of no consequence. All that matters is loyalty. Passing game, running game, doesn't matter as long as the home time wins.

Re: Silent (Trumpista) Spring

Posted: 01 Mar 2018, 13:13
by Painboy
This may go badly but Trump has a history of just blurting things out that he may or may not support.

Re: Silent (Trumpista) Spring

Posted: 01 Mar 2018, 13:17
by lunchstealer
Painboy wrote:
01 Mar 2018, 13:13
This may go badly but Trump has a history of just blurting things out that he may or may not support.
Yeah, he can read the room. Still, I agree with the analysis that the Trumpsters are going to be able to rationalize it as "He's talking about the thugs and nutcases, not Real Americans." This and the bump stock ban and the change to the purchasing age are going to be the bones he throws out there to say, "Look, Obama couldn't do anything about guns. Look what I did!" while not actually doing anything to significantly change gun laws. It may be enough to head off the issue for a couple years, too.

And - I guess the question is what the actual power looks like. There's already a threat-to-self-or-others criterion for temporary psych holds. In communities where cops are trained well, this isn't a big issue. Aurora actually gets good marks from NAMI on that front, but I know a lot of other communities are absolute shit in that regard. Ultimately, though, it isn't a federal issue. It's a state issue, and should be handled as such.

Re: Silent (Trumpista) Spring

Posted: 01 Mar 2018, 13:38
by dhex
sports bar ist kreig

Re: Silent (Trumpista) Spring

Posted: 01 Mar 2018, 13:43
by Mo
TFW MAGA are liberals in the 90s.


Re: Silent (Trumpista) Spring

Posted: 01 Mar 2018, 13:53
by MJGreen
Hard week for these folks, if these steel and aluminum tariffs are actually implemented.

Oh, and hard for the rest of us, too. JFC what a disaster.

Re: Silent (Trumpista) Spring

Posted: 01 Mar 2018, 13:56
by lunchstealer
Donald J Smoot

Re: Silent (Trumpista) Spring

Posted: 01 Mar 2018, 14:05
by Highway
What are we up to now, a 90% increase in the cost of a washer / dryer?

Re: Silent (Trumpista) Spring

Posted: 01 Mar 2018, 16:56
by Kwix
Highway wrote:
01 Mar 2018, 14:05
What are we up to now, a 90% increase in the cost of a washer / dryer?
A 50% tariff, so yes? Washing machines in particular don't worry me. You only buy a new one every 10 years. The tariff goes from 20% this year to 50% next year and then throttles back down in years 3&4. Not sure why 2019 was the year to max out other than it's the start of erection season. If your machine craps out between now and 2020, buy a used one and punish all parties.

The blanket steel and aluminum tariffs scare the crap out of me. What production we still have here is abetted by cheap steel. Whirlpool will be hit by this as hard as anybody, they just don't know it.

Re: Silent (Trumpista) Spring

Posted: 01 Mar 2018, 17:22
by Highway
Kwix wrote:
01 Mar 2018, 16:56
Highway wrote:
01 Mar 2018, 14:05
What are we up to now, a 90% increase in the cost of a washer / dryer?
A 50% tariff, so yes? Washing machines in particular don't worry me. You only buy a new one every 10 years. The tariff goes from 20% this year to 50% next year and then throttles back down in years 3&4. Not sure why 2019 was the year to max out other than it's the start of erection season. If your machine craps out between now and 2020, buy a used one and punish all parties.

The blanket steel and aluminum tariffs scare the crap out of me. What production we still have here is abetted by cheap steel. Whirlpool will be hit by this as hard as anybody, they just don't know it.
I only saw one article with details, and thought it was 25% up to something like 1.2 million units (something easily reachable, therefore priced in from the very beginning) and then 50% after that. And yeah, I agree that the steel / aluminum tariffs will hurt those manufacturers just as much or more.

So how long until Trump puts a tariff on imported plastics to help out the Bakelite phone casing industry? Since he apparently loves to jack up the prices of things people actually use to prop up long senescent US manufacturing industries.

Re: Silent (Trumpista) Spring

Posted: 02 Mar 2018, 01:17
by Aresen
MJGreen wrote:
01 Mar 2018, 13:53
Hard week for these folks, if these steel and aluminum tariffs are actually implemented.

Oh, and hard for the rest of us, too. JFC what a disaster.
When I first heard the stories about the proposed tariff on steel and aluminum, my first thought was "WTF? How do you propose to MAGA by saddling your manufacturers with higher prices on a primary input?"

Re: Silent (Trumpista) Spring

Posted: 02 Mar 2018, 10:15
by Dangerman
"So you're telling me that this 'Federal Reserve' can just make the dollar cost whatever we want? Amazing. Those is why America is always first, am I wrong? Am I wrong?

Jarod, come here. Great! Am I wrong? I didn't think so. I didn't think so.

Wonderful!

Now, Tweet this for me..."

Re: Silent (Trumpista) Spring

Posted: 02 Mar 2018, 10:34
by MJGreen
Yes, I was wondering how a tariff on steel and aluminum is supposed to help domestic manufacturing. I guess I could see romanticizing American steel the way one romanticizes coal, but Trump really hasn't thought about this beyond the big 'negative' numbers on the trade deficit, has he?

And it seems like the usual suspects have settled on a narrative now: all of this is Trump shrewdly undercutting the Democrats' talking points ahead of the midterms. Apparently Dems are big on tariffs, I dunno.

Re: Silent (Trumpista) Spring

Posted: 02 Mar 2018, 10:55
by dhex
People using trump and shrewd in the same sentence is disturbing.

Re: Silent (Trumpista) Spring

Posted: 02 Mar 2018, 10:58
by Mo
MJGreen wrote:
02 Mar 2018, 10:34
Yes, I was wondering how a tariff on steel and aluminum is supposed to help domestic manufacturing. I guess I could see romanticizing American steel the way one romanticizes coal, but Trump really hasn't thought about this beyond the big 'negative' numbers on the trade deficit, has he?

And it seems like the usual suspects have settled on a narrative now: all of this is Trump shrewdly undercutting the Democrats' talking points ahead of the midterms. Apparently Dems are big on tariffs, I dunno.
More people work in steel/aluminum consuming industries than in steel/aluminum production. And if a trade war kicks off, it will hurt Trump more. Our trade partners are quite shrewd at choosing to slap tariffs on industries with high political leverage (e.g. Europe will tax Harley, which in Paul Ryan's district).

Re: Silent (Trumpista) Spring

Posted: 02 Mar 2018, 11:09
by JD
Democrat Schumer to Trump on guns: Follow your instincts

Urging Trump to "follow his instincts" seems like one of the worst possible suggestions ever...

Re: Silent (Trumpista) Spring

Posted: 02 Mar 2018, 15:49
by MJGreen
dhex wrote:
02 Mar 2018, 10:55
People using trump and shrewd in the same sentence is disturbing.
To be clear, shrewd was my word, not theirs.

"Machiavellian" is their word.

Re: Silent (Trumpista) Spring

Posted: 02 Mar 2018, 17:04
by Aresen
Without defending the donald, I think it is fair to say if Chuck Schumer or BHO had tweeted that same 'trade war' comment, the Blue Media would be falling all over themselves to praise it.

I very much remember the Obama/Clinton primary in Ohio in 2008 where each of them was trying to outdo the other in tearing down NAFTA.

Re: Silent (Trumpista) Spring

Posted: 02 Mar 2018, 21:47
by Mo
Partly because everyone, including the Canadians, knew it was rube bait on the campaign trail as it typically is. We haven't had a legit candidate that was really anti-free trade since the 70s (unless you count Perot as legit).

Re: Silent (Trumpista) Spring

Posted: 02 Mar 2018, 21:52
by dhex
MJGreen wrote:
02 Mar 2018, 15:49
dhex wrote:
02 Mar 2018, 10:55
People using trump and shrewd in the same sentence is disturbing.
To be clear, shrewd was my word, not theirs.

"Machiavellian" is their word.
Hahahahabababahahahabahahahababbbbabababababaababab the fffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuckkkkkkkkkkkmkk

Re: Silent (Trumpista) Spring

Posted: 02 Mar 2018, 22:01
by Aresen
Mo wrote:
02 Mar 2018, 21:47
Partly because everyone, including the Canadians, knew it was rube bait on the campaign trail as it typically is. We haven't had a legit candidate that was really anti-free trade since the 70s (unless you count Perot as legit).
The point was not that the specific policy was rube bait. I'm talking more about the Sports Bar here than the actual tweet.

As Matt Welch pointed out today:
It is not new for a modern U.S. president to impose protectionist tariffs. Barack Obama did it with Chinese tires, costing American consumers an estimated $1.1 billion in return for preserving 1,200 jobs in the domestic tire industry. And as Steve Chapman has noted in these pages, "When George W. Bush imposed duties on foreign steel, experts concluded, he destroyed some 200,000 jobs in other sectors—exceeding the total employment of the American steel industry."

Re: Silent (Trumpista) Spring

Posted: 02 Mar 2018, 22:56
by Mo
The Bush tariffs were part of a negotiation to get room to recieve TPA, enabling more free trade deals, and lasted 18 months. Obama also negotiated and signed the three biggest free trade deals post-NAFTA (including KORUS) and almost got TPP. Tariffs are idiotic, but trading a narrow tariff for broader trade liberalization is better than the Trump approach of just tightening trade. So far Trump has only gone one way on trade agreements. Also, neither encouraged a trade war.