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Re: Prank SWAT Call May Have Led to Wichita Police Killing a Random Man on His Own Doorstep

Posted: 31 Dec 2017, 11:19
by nicole
Warren wrote:
31 Dec 2017, 11:11
My problem with holding the SWATer culpable for the death, is what if the SWAT team didn't shoot anybody? Is his crime less? I want competent police. We'll never get them so long as we keep giving them a free pass. I want the police held accountable for their actions, and I want people that falsely report crimes held accountable for theirs. And I don't think falsely reporting crimes is a lesser crime if the police aren't given a pass.
I mean attempted murder is a lesser crime than murder, yes.

Re: Prank SWAT Call May Have Led to Wichita Police Killing a Random Man on His Own Doorstep

Posted: 31 Dec 2017, 13:25
by Jennifer
The swatter-asshole already has a record for calling in a hoax bomb threat; was sentenced to IIRC around two years in prison for it, and apparently not a single lesson was learned by him. Plus, the Twitter account he'd had before it got suspended was something like @SWAuTistic .

Re: Prank SWAT Call May Have Led to Wichita Police Killing a Random Man on His Own Doorstep

Posted: 31 Dec 2017, 13:36
by Warren
Jennifer wrote:
31 Dec 2017, 13:25
The swatter-asshole already has a record for calling in a hoax bomb threat; was sentenced to IIRC around two years in prison for it, and apparently not a single lesson was learned by him. Plus, the Twitter account he'd had before it got suspended was something like @SWAuTistic .
If that's true, I'd be very interested to hear what he has to say for himself.

Re: Prank SWAT Call May Have Led to Wichita Police Killing a Random Man on His Own Doorstep

Posted: 31 Dec 2017, 13:42
by Jennifer
Warren wrote:
31 Dec 2017, 13:36
Jennifer wrote:
31 Dec 2017, 13:25
The swatter-asshole already has a record for calling in a hoax bomb threat; was sentenced to IIRC around two years in prison for it, and apparently not a single lesson was learned by him. Plus, the Twitter account he'd had before it got suspended was something like @SWAuTistic .
If that's true, I'd be very interested to hear what he has to say for himself.
Google his name and you'll find plenty. After the murder but before his arrest he was still online arguing that it totally wasn't his fault. And before that, he has a fairly long history of either threatening to make swat or bomb threats, or bragging about having done so.

He's 25 years old right now; it's not even like you can say "Hmm, well, maybe he'll outgrow this once he finishes puberty and hopefully develops some empathy."

Re: Prank SWAT Call May Have Led to Wichita Police Killing a Random Man on His Own Doorstep

Posted: 31 Dec 2017, 13:48
by Jennifer
Here's some info Brian Krebs had before Burriss' arrest, including screenshots of him boasting on Twitter that the house he swatted is on the news.

https://krebsonsecurity.com/2017/12/kan ... ng-attack/

Re: Prank SWAT Call May Have Led to Wichita Police Killing a Random Man on His Own Doorstep

Posted: 31 Dec 2017, 23:38
by Mo
Warren wrote:My problem with holding the SWATer culpable for the death, is what if the SWAT team didn't shoot anybody? Is his crime less? I want competent police. We'll never get them so long as we keep giving them a free pass. I want the police held accountable for their actions, and I want people that falsely report crimes held accountable for theirs. And I don't think falsely reporting crimes is a lesser crime if the police aren't given a pass.
If you assault someone and they get a black eye, you get assault. If you assault someone in an identical manner and kill them, you get murder.

Re: Prank SWAT Call May Have Led to Wichita Police Killing a Random Man on His Own Doorstep

Posted: 01 Jan 2018, 16:00
by lunchstealer
Aresen wrote:
30 Dec 2017, 19:05
Highway wrote:
30 Dec 2017, 13:34
I hold him to partial blame for the shooting as well. Someone being shot is a likely outcome of a SWAT raid. Not a rare outcome. A likely outcome, especially when it's a SWAT raid for a supposed shooting and hostage situation. You call that in, you hold responsibility for putting all the people there in danger. Is it murder? No. But is there culpability? Yes.
Team Highway. People who SWAT others know damn well that the cops are primed to over-react. The prank caller had to be aware of the possibility of deadly force being used. I'd put it on the level of a person driving at high speed whose car goes out of control and kills a pedestrian.
I would be unsurprised if a prosecutor could get an indictment on depraved-indifference homicide or at least manslaughter. And no jury is going to refuse to convict an asshole who gets someone killed over a fucking Call of Duty game.

Re: Prank SWAT Call May Have Led to Wichita Police Killing a Random Man on His Own Doorstep

Posted: 01 Jan 2018, 16:03
by lunchstealer
Mo wrote:
31 Dec 2017, 23:38
Warren wrote:My problem with holding the SWATer culpable for the death, is what if the SWAT team didn't shoot anybody? Is his crime less? I want competent police. We'll never get them so long as we keep giving them a free pass. I want the police held accountable for their actions, and I want people that falsely report crimes held accountable for theirs. And I don't think falsely reporting crimes is a lesser crime if the police aren't given a pass.
If you assault someone and they get a black eye, you get assault. If you assault someone in an identical manner and kill them, you get murder.
Yeah, there are plenty of situations where a bad result drives up the crime. Reckless driving vs vehicular manslaughter, etc.

Re: Prank SWAT Call May Have Led to Wichita Police Killing a Random Man on His Own Doorstep

Posted: 01 Jan 2018, 16:14
by lunchstealer
Highway wrote:
30 Dec 2017, 14:54
Would I like this to end with the double benefit of the cops disbanding or severely curtailing the use of SWAT teams? Yeah. We've seen that most of them are used for dubious deployments, for drug raids and non-violent offenders. Would that end up with an increase in the danger to cops? Yeah, it probably would. I personally don't think that's necessarily a bad trade, because that's what their job is supposed to be, what they repeatedly claim it is, yet what it rarely is. But as usual, how we get from here to there is the question there isn't a good answer for.
It won't result in reform because this is the one scenario that SWAT might be most legitimate. Hostage situations are one of the primary justifications of the original development of SWAT teams.

SWAT raids on mayors is what will maybe curtail SWAT, and almost nothing else.

Re: Prank SWAT Call May Have Led to Wichita Police Killing a Random Man on His Own Doorstep

Posted: 01 Jan 2018, 16:43
by thoreau
"911, what's your emergency?"
"A man is threatening to set off a bomb if he doesn't get what he wants."
"Where are you calling from?"
"Mar Lago."
"Can you describe the hostage taker?"
"Orange, fat, elderly."
"And who is he threatening?"
"A fat Asian man in his 30's."

Re: Prank SWAT Call May Have Led to Wichita Police Killing a Random Man on His Own Doorstep

Posted: 12 Jan 2018, 18:00
by Aresen
So they have put manslaughter charges on the SWAT caller. Don't hold your breath for any cop to be accountable.

Re: Prank SWAT Call May Have Led to Wichita Police Killing a Random Man on His Own Doorstep

Posted: 13 Jan 2018, 13:30
by Jennifer
lunchstealer wrote:
01 Jan 2018, 16:14
Highway wrote:
30 Dec 2017, 14:54
Would I like this to end with the double benefit of the cops disbanding or severely curtailing the use of SWAT teams? Yeah. We've seen that most of them are used for dubious deployments, for drug raids and non-violent offenders. Would that end up with an increase in the danger to cops? Yeah, it probably would. I personally don't think that's necessarily a bad trade, because that's what their job is supposed to be, what they repeatedly claim it is, yet what it rarely is. But as usual, how we get from here to there is the question there isn't a good answer for.
It won't result in reform because this is the one scenario that SWAT might be most legitimate. Hostage situations are one of the primary justifications of the original development of SWAT teams.

SWAT raids on mayors is what will maybe curtail SWAT, and almost nothing else.
The hell of it is, even if the call were 100 percent legit the cop STILL fucked up -- shooting whoever answered the door the second it opened? That could've been the hostage opening the door while the bad guy held a gun to his head.

Re: Prank SWAT Call May Have Led to Wichita Police Killing a Random Man on His Own Doorstep

Posted: 13 Jan 2018, 14:07
by lunchstealer
But for the proles, that’s a level of nuance that just won’t get past the Thin Blue Line apologists.