The Disappearing Sixth Amendment

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Warren
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The Disappearing Sixth Amendment

Post by Warren » 07 May 2017, 20:11

The Disappearing Sixth Amendment

On the one hand Complete top-to-bottom overhaul of the entire judicial system is on my list of most needed reforms. But I've been unaware of this particular failing. Totally should have suspected it too.
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Mo
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Re: The Disappearing Sixth Amendment

Post by Mo » 07 May 2017, 20:21

Do you not read Andrew's posts? Mrs. Mo donated a bunch of money to the NO public defenders' office when they were highlighted on John Oliver. This is going to sound odd, because Oliver is clearly D leaning, but nothing has made my wife more sympathetic to my libertarian leanings than that show
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

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Re: The Disappearing Sixth Amendment

Post by Aresen » 07 May 2017, 20:59

Jeff Sessions and Joe Arpaio and legions of LEOs wrote:If they were really innocent, they wouldn't need a public defender.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

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Number 6
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Re: The Disappearing Sixth Amendment

Post by Number 6 » 08 May 2017, 00:02

Aresen wrote:
Jeff Sessions and Joe Arpaio and legions of LEOs wrote:If they were really innocent, they wouldn't need a public defender.
Obviously. If they were innocent, they never would have been arrested.
" i discovered you eat dog dicks out of a bowl marked "dog dicks" because you're too stupid to remember where you left your bowl of dog dicks."-dhex, of course.
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: The Disappearing Sixth Amendment

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 08 May 2017, 00:38

Number 6 wrote:
Aresen wrote:
Jeff Sessions and Joe Arpaio and legions of LEOs wrote:If they were really innocent, they wouldn't need a public defender.
Obviously. If they were innocent, they never would have been arrested.
If you haven't done anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about when the cops break down your door, shoot your dog, beat the crap out of you and drag you off to jail where a prosecuting attorney pressures you into a plea bargain where you end up with a felony conviction and enough prison time to get raped at least a couple dozen times, so stop whining!

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Number 6
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Re: The Disappearing Sixth Amendment

Post by Number 6 » 08 May 2017, 00:58

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
Number 6 wrote:
Aresen wrote:
Jeff Sessions and Joe Arpaio and legions of LEOs wrote:If they were really innocent, they wouldn't need a public defender.
Obviously. If they were innocent, they never would have been arrested.
If you haven't done anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about when the cops break down your door, shoot your dog, beat the crap out of you and drag you off to jail where a prosecuting attorney pressures you into a plea bargain where you end up with a felony conviction and enough prison time to get raped at least a couple dozen times, so stop whining!
Oh, don't worry. That sort of thing is only for...those sort of people. You know the ones.
" i discovered you eat dog dicks out of a bowl marked "dog dicks" because you're too stupid to remember where you left your bowl of dog dicks."-dhex, of course.
"Come, let us go forth and not rape together"-Jadagul

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Warren
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Re: The Disappearing Sixth Amendment

Post by Warren » 08 May 2017, 01:25

Number 6 wrote:
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
Number 6 wrote:
Aresen wrote:
Jeff Sessions and Joe Arpaio and legions of LEOs wrote:If they were really innocent, they wouldn't need a public defender.
Obviously. If they were innocent, they never would have been arrested.
If you haven't done anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about when the cops break down your door, shoot your dog, beat the crap out of you and drag you off to jail where a prosecuting attorney pressures you into a plea bargain where you end up with a felony conviction and enough prison time to get raped at least a couple dozen times, so stop whining!
Oh, don't worry. That sort of thing is only for...those sort of people. You know the ones.
Methodists?
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lunchstealer
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Re: The Disappearing Sixth Amendment

Post by lunchstealer » 08 May 2017, 03:01

Warren wrote:
Number 6 wrote:
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
Number 6 wrote:
Aresen wrote:
Jeff Sessions and Joe Arpaio and legions of LEOs wrote:If they were really innocent, they wouldn't need a public defender.
Obviously. If they were innocent, they never would have been arrested.
If you haven't done anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about when the cops break down your door, shoot your dog, beat the crap out of you and drag you off to jail where a prosecuting attorney pressures you into a plea bargain where you end up with a felony conviction and enough prison time to get raped at least a couple dozen times, so stop whining!
Oh, don't worry. That sort of thing is only for...those sort of people. You know the ones.
Methodists?
And Baptists.

Presbyterians and Episcopalians have better taste than to live where people are involved in the sorts of things that bring the gendarmes to the door.
"The constitution is more of a BDSM agreement with a safe word." - Sandy

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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: The Disappearing Sixth Amendment

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 08 May 2017, 13:51

lunchstealer wrote:
Warren wrote:
Number 6 wrote:
D.A. Ridgely wrote: If you haven't done anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about when the cops break down your door, shoot your dog, beat the crap out of you and drag you off to jail where a prosecuting attorney pressures you into a plea bargain where you end up with a felony conviction and enough prison time to get raped at least a couple dozen times, so stop whining!
Oh, don't worry. That sort of thing is only for...those sort of people. You know the ones.
Methodists?
And Baptists.

Presbyterians and Episcopalians have better taste than to live where people are involved in the sorts of things that bring the gendarmes to the door.
If you live anywhere close to a storefront bible church with a neon cross, on the other hand, well, you're just asking for it.

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Aresen
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Re: The Disappearing Sixth Amendment

Post by Aresen » 08 May 2017, 16:39

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
lunchstealer wrote:
Warren wrote:
Number 6 wrote:
D.A. Ridgely wrote: If you haven't done anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about when the cops break down your door, shoot your dog, beat the crap out of you and drag you off to jail where a prosecuting attorney pressures you into a plea bargain where you end up with a felony conviction and enough prison time to get raped at least a couple dozen times, so stop whining!
Oh, don't worry. That sort of thing is only for...those sort of people. You know the ones.
Methodists?
And Baptists.

Presbyterians and Episcopalians have better taste than to live where people are involved in the sorts of things that bring the gendarmes to the door.
If you live anywhere close to a storefront bible church with a neon cross, on the other hand, well, you're just asking for it.
You shall not crucify mankind upon a cross of neon.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Most people don't realize Stephen King downplayed the horror that is Maine. - Jennifer

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Jason
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Re: The Disappearing Sixth Amendment

Post by Jason » 08 May 2017, 18:22

This message should not be used for any purposes in the development, design, manufacture, or production of nuclear, chemical, or biological weapons.

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thoreau
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Re: The Disappearing Sixth Amendment

Post by thoreau » 08 May 2017, 18:39

I would be delighted if a legislator pushed for some sort of parity in the funding formulas for prosecutors and public defenders. I realize that 1:1 might not be appropriate, given that every case has a public prosecutor but not every case has a public defender. Still, whatever the reasonable ratio is it's closer to 1:1 than the current situation, and I'd like to see states move in that direction.
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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: The Disappearing Sixth Amendment

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 08 May 2017, 18:42

thoreau wrote:I would be delighted if a legislator pushed for some sort of parity in the funding formulas for prosecutors and public defenders. I realize that 1:1 might not be appropriate, given that every case has a public prosecutor but not every case has a public defender. Still, whatever the reasonable ratio is it's closer to 1:1 than the current situation, and I'd like to see states move in that direction.
But then there would be far more actual trials than now, meaning either the hiring of lots and lots more judges or a waiting time that might be so long it actually triggered the speedy trial provision.

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thoreau
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Re: The Disappearing Sixth Amendment

Post by thoreau » 08 May 2017, 18:48

Oh noes! Don't throw me in that briar patch!
"The first rule of Grylliade club is 'Why are we talking about Grylliade club?'"
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Jennifer
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Re: The Disappearing Sixth Amendment

Post by Jennifer » 08 May 2017, 21:03

D.A. Ridgely wrote:
thoreau wrote:I would be delighted if a legislator pushed for some sort of parity in the funding formulas for prosecutors and public defenders. I realize that 1:1 might not be appropriate, given that every case has a public prosecutor but not every case has a public defender. Still, whatever the reasonable ratio is it's closer to 1:1 than the current situation, and I'd like to see states move in that direction.
But then there would be far more actual trials than now, meaning either the hiring of lots and lots more judges or a waiting time that might be so long it actually triggered the speedy trial provision.
Better that than the de facto status quo "Constitutional rights only apply if the government deems them sufficiently convenient and affordable." If places can't afford enough public defenders, they either need to pour more money into that, or arrest less people.
"Myself, despite what they say about libertarians, I think we're actually allowed to pursue options beyond futility or sucking the dicks of the powerful." -- Eric the .5b

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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: The Disappearing Sixth Amendment

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 08 May 2017, 21:16

Jennifer wrote:
D.A. Ridgely wrote:
thoreau wrote:I would be delighted if a legislator pushed for some sort of parity in the funding formulas for prosecutors and public defenders. I realize that 1:1 might not be appropriate, given that every case has a public prosecutor but not every case has a public defender. Still, whatever the reasonable ratio is it's closer to 1:1 than the current situation, and I'd like to see states move in that direction.
But then there would be far more actual trials than now, meaning either the hiring of lots and lots more judges or a waiting time that might be so long it actually triggered the speedy trial provision.
Better that than the de facto status quo "Constitutional rights only apply if the government deems them sufficiently convenient and affordable." If places can't afford enough public defenders, they either need to pour more money into that, or arrest less people.
Well, yes, it would be better. I was merely articulating one of the reasons it won't ever happen.

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lunchstealer
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Re: The Disappearing Sixth Amendment

Post by lunchstealer » 09 May 2017, 12:18

At what rate do defendants with privately-obtained lawyers go to trial?
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Andrew
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Re: The Disappearing Sixth Amendment

Post by Andrew » 09 May 2017, 13:15

lunchstealer wrote:At what rate do defendants with privately-obtained lawyers go to trial?
Probably lower than defendants with PDs (for felony cases; probably about the same or higher for misdemeanor DUI). It's extremely expensive to go to trial with a privately retained attorney, especially for serious/complex cases. When the attorney is taxpayer provided, there's no additional cost to go to trial. More than a few defendants decide they're going to "punish" the system/prosecutor/public defender and go to trial.
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