Will NYT Labor Reporting Ever Get the Facts Straight?

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nicole
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Will NYT Labor Reporting Ever Get the Facts Straight?

Post by nicole » 20 Apr 2017, 16:55

Obviously, at least when it comes to Sarah Maslin Nir, the answer is "hell no." But this sort of intrigued me:
Two of the closed facilities, Harlem Hand Wash and J.V Car Wash in Manhattan, were massive operations. The closing of the three Vázquez car washes destroyed over a hundred low-wage jobs. And they're not coming back.

As I detailed in a feature story in the July 2016 issue of Reason, the U.S. car wash industry started replacing men with machines in the 1970s, and today almost every new facility that's built is fully automated. New York City car washes, however, bucked the national trend because they were able to draw on a large immigrant labor pool willing to work for cheap.

Today, New York City operators have started automating in response to an explosion of labor litigation, a unionization drive, a new punitive licensing regime, and the $15 minimum wage, which takes full effect in 2019. An advantage of machines is that they're "headache-free," as one veteran car wash operator put it to me.

In just the last few months, two major car washes (one in Manhattan's Chelsea neighborhood and the other in Queens) installed new machinery to eliminate workers, and a former labor-heavy wash on Jamaica Avenue converted to a fully automated system, allowing it to eliminate its entire workforce.
http://reason.com/blog/2017/04/20/car-w ... ur-vazquez

Does anyone here think automated car washes are remotely equivalent to hand wash operations? Hand washing is very much not limited to NYC; I don't think I've been to an automated car wash since I was about 5 and asked my mom to take me because I thought it was cool. But do hand washes really not exist as an option everywhere? Are there now automatic car washes that are actually as good -- are they different from what I am familiar with?
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Mo
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Re: Will NYT Labor Reporting Ever Get the Facts Straight?

Post by Mo » 20 Apr 2017, 17:07

nicole wrote:Obviously, at least when it comes to Sarah Maslin Nir, the answer is "hell no." But this sort of intrigued me:
Two of the closed facilities, Harlem Hand Wash and J.V Car Wash in Manhattan, were massive operations. The closing of the three Vázquez car washes destroyed over a hundred low-wage jobs. And they're not coming back.

As I detailed in a feature story in the July 2016 issue of Reason, the U.S. car wash industry started replacing men with machines in the 1970s, and today almost every new facility that's built is fully automated. New York City car washes, however, bucked the national trend because they were able to draw on a large immigrant labor pool willing to work for cheap.

Today, New York City operators have started automating in response to an explosion of labor litigation, a unionization drive, a new punitive licensing regime, and the $15 minimum wage, which takes full effect in 2019. An advantage of machines is that they're "headache-free," as one veteran car wash operator put it to me.

In just the last few months, two major car washes (one in Manhattan's Chelsea neighborhood and the other in Queens) installed new machinery to eliminate workers, and a former labor-heavy wash on Jamaica Avenue converted to a fully automated system, allowing it to eliminate its entire workforce.
http://reason.com/blog/2017/04/20/car-w ... ur-vazquez

Does anyone here think automated car washes are remotely equivalent to hand wash operations? Hand washing is very much not limited to NYC; I don't think I've been to an automated car wash since I was about 5 and asked my mom to take me because I thought it was cool. But do hand washes really not exist as an option everywhere? Are there now automatic car washes that are actually as good -- are they different from what I am familiar with?
The car wash near me has an automated side and a hand wash side, then you can get detailing on either. So maybe this counts as a new "fully automated" car wash, even though at least 50% go through the hand wash side. Most car washes that I've seen have a similar setup.
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Aresen
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Re: Will NYT Labor Reporting Ever Get the Facts Straight?

Post by Aresen » 20 Apr 2017, 18:29

No. Automated car washes do not come close to hand washing.

There is one here in Victoria. The price of a hand wash is about 3x the price of an automated one. I notice that the hand wash operation is located in the area where the high-end dealerships (Lexus, Mercedes) are located, so I assume there is a common clientel.

There is also a detailing shop that offers a basic cleaning at $75 if you want a super-clean car.

(Me? My car gets washed ~ once per year, if that.)
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JasonL
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Re: Will NYT Labor Reporting Ever Get the Facts Straight?

Post by JasonL » 20 Apr 2017, 18:53

Hand wash places do not really exist around here. You can go to automated wash and get levels of service, which on a tiered basis increases the by hand services delivered after the auto wash is done. But manual sudsing and wiping then manual drying from full wet? No, that's not a thing. You can get a detail if you want that may work that way but I'm not sure.

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Re: Will NYT Labor Reporting Ever Get the Facts Straight?

Post by Warren » 20 Apr 2017, 19:44

JasonL wrote:Hand wash places do not really exist around here. You can go to automated wash and get levels of service, which on a tiered basis increases the by hand services delivered after the auto wash is done. But manual sudsing and wiping then manual drying from full wet? No, that's not a thing. You can get a detail if you want that may work that way but I'm not sure.
The only hand washing around here is of the HS cheerleader fund raising variety. High end car wash is a couple guys vacuum, Armor All, and Windex the inside of your car, it goes through the automated car wash and a couple other guys finish drying it off. Lots of options.
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Re: Will NYT Labor Reporting Ever Get the Facts Straight?

Post by Ellie » 20 Apr 2017, 21:15

I didn't even realize there was such a thing as a hand wash car wash. Here we have the automated ones you drive through, or stalls where you pay for time with the hose/soap sprayer and wash it yourself.
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Re: Will NYT Labor Reporting Ever Get the Facts Straight?

Post by Shem » 24 Apr 2017, 02:29

Nearly all car washes around here are fully automated. Some of the nicer ones have people who wipe down your car, send you through a machine, then chamois off your car after, but the only people who do a full wash are kids trying to raise money for charity. I didn't know anywhere still had hand-washed cars anymore.

FWIW, I usually take my car to a fully automated brush-free washing operation, and it comes out looking as good as if I had done it by hand.
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Number 6
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Re: Will NYT Labor Reporting Ever Get the Facts Straight?

Post by Number 6 » 24 Apr 2017, 02:40

Hand washing places still exist in and around KC. Most also seem to have an automated wash option. Much more common are the sorts of places where you drop quarters in the machine and spray your car down with a wand. Most of those also have an automatic option. They're useful for weekly washes, but if the car needs a hand wash and wax, I prefer to do it myself.
I can't really speculate on the market for hand washing, but those places to seem to cater to the sorts of people willing to pay large amounts of money to keep their SUVs shiny without the taint of manual labor.
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Jennifer
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Re: Will NYT Labor Reporting Ever Get the Facts Straight?

Post by Jennifer » 24 Apr 2017, 03:38

I let the rain wash my car for me.
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JasonL
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Re: Will NYT Labor Reporting Ever Get the Facts Straight?

Post by JasonL » 24 Apr 2017, 08:41

Hand wash wetted with tears of the proletariat is best.

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nicole
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Re: Will NYT Labor Reporting Ever Get the Facts Straight?

Post by nicole » 24 Apr 2017, 08:44

Yeah I'm never leaving the city guys.

$12 hand wash on the next block from my apartment. Cheaper on Tuesday mornings.
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Re: Will NYT Labor Reporting Ever Get the Facts Straight?

Post by Warren » 24 Apr 2017, 12:31

Jennifer wrote:I let the rain wash my car for me.
You can get away with that in GA. In places they put salt on the roads, under carriage rinsing is essential. Even in GA the more your car is subjected to bird shit and tree shit, the more you need to wash it. Eventually that shit will eat through the paint and start rusting.
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Shem
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Re: Will NYT Labor Reporting Ever Get the Facts Straight?

Post by Shem » 24 Apr 2017, 14:15

In Washington, people think they can get away with that until the mildew eats away the seals on their windows. Gotta keep it clean.
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Number 6
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Re: Will NYT Labor Reporting Ever Get the Facts Straight?

Post by Number 6 » 25 Apr 2017, 09:01

Warren wrote:
Jennifer wrote:I let the rain wash my car for me.
You can get away with that in GA. In places they put salt on the roads, under carriage rinsing is essential. Even in GA the more your car is subjected to bird shit and tree shit, the more you need to wash it. Eventually that shit will eat through the paint and start rusting.
This. An occasional wax is essential for similar reasons. Use the carnuba paste every few months. Between those applications, a spray on wax or the stuff the car wash uses is fine.
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Re: Will NYT Labor Reporting Ever Get the Facts Straight?

Post by Warren » 25 Apr 2017, 09:22

Number 6 wrote:
Warren wrote:
Jennifer wrote:I let the rain wash my car for me.
You can get away with that in GA. In places they put salt on the roads, under carriage rinsing is essential. Even in GA the more your car is subjected to bird shit and tree shit, the more you need to wash it. Eventually that shit will eat through the paint and start rusting.
This. An occasional wax is essential for similar reasons. Use the carnuba paste every few months. Between those applications, a spray on wax or the stuff the car wash uses is fine.
Okay, hand waxing is pure vanity. Running the car through the wash every other week or so and getting the spray-on wax once a quarter is enough to ensure your body will outlast your drive-train (heh dirty!)
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Re: Will NYT Labor Reporting Ever Get the Facts Straight?

Post by dead_elvis » 25 Apr 2017, 17:21

As someone whose dad made hand waxing the vehicles one of our Duties As A Member Of The Family, I'd always been curious how the spray on from a car wash compares. I always assumed it would be far inferior and was basically a marketing scam to make you feel like you got better value out of the car wash. How can it really be waxed if you didn't kill your arms buffing?
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Re: Will NYT Labor Reporting Ever Get the Facts Straight?

Post by Warren » 25 Apr 2017, 17:25

dead_elvis wrote:As someone whose dad made hand waxing the vehicles one of our Duties As A Member Of The Family, I'd always been curious how the spray on from a car wash compares. I always assumed it would be far inferior and was basically a marketing scam to make you feel like you got better value out of the car wash. How can it really be waxed if you didn't kill your arms buffing?
There's no buffing. It doesn't give you the "show room finish" hand waxing does. What it does, is creates very high surface tension so water beads up and rolls off.
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JasonL
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Re: Will NYT Labor Reporting Ever Get the Facts Straight?

Post by JasonL » 25 Apr 2017, 20:44

Warren wrote:
dead_elvis wrote:As someone whose dad made hand waxing the vehicles one of our Duties As A Member Of The Family, I'd always been curious how the spray on from a car wash compares. I always assumed it would be far inferior and was basically a marketing scam to make you feel like you got better value out of the car wash. How can it really be waxed if you didn't kill your arms buffing?
There's no buffing. It doesn't give you the "show room finish" hand waxing does. What it does, is creates very high surface tension so water beads up and rolls off.
This is my experience. I've moved 2 cars with significant miles where the buyer told me they can't believe how good the paint looks. Cheap auto wash 7-10 days when newer and 2 weeks plus a bit when older. Auto spray wax 1/month. The end.

EDIT: also I don't keep it in the sun, so that could be 90% of the issue there.

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