Nick tilts at CPAC and Milo

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Nick tilts at CPAC and Milo

Post by Warren » 21 Feb 2017, 18:34

Counter to 'this forum is full of nut punch posts', I submit that Gillespie is right on every point in this take down of the conservative movement and alt-right spokesman Milo Yiannopoulos.

CPAC Organizer Tries To Pawn Off Milo Yiannopoulos as "Libertarian"
Yeah, not so much.
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Re: Nick tilts at CPAC and Milo

Post by nicole » 22 Feb 2017, 08:23

Yep
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Re: Nick tilts at CPAC and Milo

Post by tr0g » 22 Feb 2017, 10:15

"Libertarian" for conservatives is a dumping ground these days for people who are clearly not of the left but that conservatives don't want to claim.

For lefties, it continues to mean either machiavellian spawn of Satan or selfish idiots with no understanding of reality, depending on what point they're trying to make.
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Re: Nick tilts at CPAC and Milo

Post by Warren » 22 Feb 2017, 10:20

tr0g wrote:"Libertarian" for conservatives is a dumping ground these days for people who are clearly not of the left but that conservatives don't want to claim.

For lefties, it continues to mean either machiavellian spawn of Satan or selfish idiots with no understanding of reality, depending on what point they're trying to make.
Just the other day I got the "Somalia is a libertarian paradise" on the book of faces when I argued against trying to "fix" the EPA.
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Re: Nick tilts at CPAC and Milo

Post by Sandy » 22 Feb 2017, 11:23

Warren wrote:
tr0g wrote:"Libertarian" for conservatives is a dumping ground these days for people who are clearly not of the left but that conservatives don't want to claim.

For lefties, it continues to mean either machiavellian spawn of Satan or selfish idiots with no understanding of reality, depending on what point they're trying to make.
Just the other day I got the "Somalia is a libertarian paradise" on the book of faces when I argued against trying to "fix" the EPA.
I just respond with the "MUH ROADS" comic and am done with it.
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Re: Nick tilts at CPAC and Milo

Post by Jennifer » 24 Feb 2017, 15:51

The more I read about Milo's rise and fall (in general, not a specific reference to this H&R piece), the more I get the feeling this was a case of "Right outcome, wrong reasons." It's not even like "After all the evil things Al Capone did, the feds could only only nab him for tax evasion" -- this is more like bringing down Capone for jaywalking across a deserted street.
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Re: Nick tilts at CPAC and Milo

Post by Jennifer » 28 Feb 2017, 18:36

I like Shikha Dalmia's piece about Milo and CPAC: "Conservatives made their bed with Milo, now they have to lie in it."
...That it took these pedophilia comments for conservatives to finally turn on Yiannopoulos speaks volumes about how low their movement has fallen. Yiannopoulos was a hate-peddling provocateur long before this. By inviting him to speak at universities around the country, many college Republicans apparently thought they were taking a brave stance against the forces of political correctness, and scoring one for free speech. In fact, they were discrediting their own movement by allying themselves with a vicious troll — demonstrating that they hate their enemies more than they love their alleged principles.

Republican students have a right to invite whomever they want to say whatever they want (short of a targeted call for violence) unmolested and without censorship. So if University of California, Berkeley, where Yiannopoulous' appearance triggered riots by armed leftist hoodlums, stick to their vow to have him back (along with right-wing conspiracy theorist Alex Jones) then so be it. Berkley is a public university and is required not just by the First Amendment but its own mission to be a broad purveyor of ideas to create a "safe space" for Yiannopoulos. And CPAC is a private gathering that can put whomever it wants on its roster — and also remove those same people.

But if Republicans have a right to invite Yiannaopoulos, others have the right to judge them for the company they keep. And Yiannopoulos is very, very bad company.

-snip-

Yiannopoulos agrees with the alt-right that certain pop cultural products remain firmly the purview of white men and yield not another inch to diversity or feminizing. The first big battle on this front was the GamerGate blowup two years ago, when video-game-playing (mostly white) men unleashed a torrent of invective and abuse against female game developers who they felt were hell-bent on feminizing their products. Yiannopoulos tweeted and wrote constantly in support of the gamers, joining them in their attacks and depicting them as the real victims — a political jujitsu that he has now perfected to an art.

Yiannopoulos was later banned from Twitter over his attacks last summer on Leslie Jones, a black woman starring in the new Ghostbusters. Yiannopoulos instigated and mobilized his massive alt-right Twitter brigade — already worked up about the movie's all-female cast — against Jones. They called her an "ape" and other terrible things. Then they created a fake Twitter account in her name and sent a series of tweets with anti-Semitic, homophobic slurs. When a distraught and bewildered Jones protested, Yiannopoulos simply berated her for playing the victim.

Yiannopoulos and his fellow alt-righters don't just abuse leftists and their symbols. They also go after fellow right-wingers who disagree with them, especially on Trump. Milo's former Breitbart colleague, Ben Shapiro, who quit when the site became, as he put it, "Trump's Pravda," recounts that when his child was born, Yiannopoulos tweeted a picture of a black baby to taunt him for being a "cuckservative." (This is alt-right slang for a cuckolded conservative who enjoys watching his wife have sex with a black man, a metaphor for having been seduced by the left's multiethnic vision.) Now, Shapiro is no slouch himself when it comes to fighting the PC culture. He has written books like Brainwashed: How Universities Indoctrinate America's Youth. But because he is anti-Trump and Jewish, alt-righters flood him with anti-Semitic tweets replete with references to gas chambers....
EDIT: I know, Milo did not actually make "pedophilia comments."
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Re: Nick tilts at CPAC and Milo

Post by Warren » 28 Feb 2017, 19:49

Jennifer wrote:I like Shikha Dalmia's piece about Milo and CPAC: "Conservatives made their bed with Milo, now they have to lie in it."
Oh hell no. That piece is just garbage.
Yes Milo was a hate-peddling provocateur all along. And provoke he did. The reaction he provoked was the whole point.
Shikha is just wrong that the right is married to Milo. CPAC and Breitbart have cut him loose. I'll be surprised if we hear from him again. No one is going to remember him in two months much less as they pull the lever two Novembers from now.
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Re: Nick tilts at CPAC and Milo

Post by Jennifer » 28 Feb 2017, 19:53

Warren wrote:
Jennifer wrote:I like Shikha Dalmia's piece about Milo and CPAC: "Conservatives made their bed with Milo, now they have to lie in it."
Oh hell no. That piece is just garbage.
Yes Milo was a hate-peddling provocateur all along. And provoke he did. The reaction he provoked was the whole point.
Shikha is just wrong that the right is married to Milo. CPAC and Breitbart have cut him loose.
But look at what they cut him loose for, compared to all the previous garbage from him they were willing to tolerate if not celebrate. They had no problem with him when he was "only" peddling rancid misogyny, religious bigotry, racist harassment ... if that's what "conservatism" (or "libertarianism," for that matter) stands for, then fuck conservatism.
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Re: Nick tilts at CPAC and Milo

Post by Warren » 28 Feb 2017, 20:01

Jennifer wrote:
Warren wrote:
Jennifer wrote:I like Shikha Dalmia's piece about Milo and CPAC: "Conservatives made their bed with Milo, now they have to lie in it."
Oh hell no. That piece is just garbage.
Yes Milo was a hate-peddling provocateur all along. And provoke he did. The reaction he provoked was the whole point.
Shikha is just wrong that the right is married to Milo. CPAC and Breitbart have cut him loose.
But look at what they cut him loose for, compared to all the previous garbage from him they were willing to tolerate if not celebrate. They had no problem with him when he was "only" peddling rancid misogyny, religious bigotry, racist harassment ... if that's what "conservatism" (or "libertarianism," for that matter) stands for, then fuck conservatism.
Fuck conservatism for catering to religious zelots
Fuck conservatism for the WOD
Fuck conservatism for the prison industrial complex
Fuck conservatism for the military industrial complex
Fuck conservatism for military adventurism
Fuck conservatism for crony capitalism
Fuck conservatism for outspending liberals and blowing up the national debt

As for clown prince of conservatism that exposed the loony left for the wackadoodles they are by saying mean things? Sure, fuck him too, but he won't take anyone else down with him.
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Re: Nick tilts at CPAC and Milo

Post by Jennifer » 28 Feb 2017, 20:12

Not to mention, Warren, when you say "Milo was a hate-peddling provocateur all along. And provoke he did. The reaction he provoked was the whole point" -- that just underscores what Dalmia wrote: "they hate their enemies more than they love their alleged principles."

Besides, even if one is to argue that there's some value in being a provocateur -- a statement I agree with to a certain extent -- what matters is not only who you provoke, but how you provoke them. Remember a few years ago, there was that news story about the facepalmingly stupid city councilman somewhere, who took umbrage when another councilmember referred to a certain proposal as a "financial black hole?" Normal people would recognize that as an astronomical reference and a way of saying "It'll suck in money which we'll never see again" -- but that idjit decided it was actually a display of vile anti-black racism.

I'll admit: If I knew somebody that fucking stupid, and I were feeling puckish, I might very well be tempted to provoke him by making (perfectly correct, in context) comments about "black holes" or "black mold" or "black lung disease" -- or at least snicker when somebody else did. But I would not provoke him (or anyone else) by making comments praising Jim Crow or the Ku Klux Klan or Old South necktie parties, nor would I argue that someone who did was a bold free-speech hero deserving of admiration. And Milo's provocateuring was far more like those latter examples than the former.

EDIT: typos
Last edited by Jennifer on 28 Feb 2017, 21:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nick tilts at CPAC and Milo

Post by Warren » 28 Feb 2017, 20:19

And now he's been given the gong and the hook dragged him off stage. Who exactly do you think his stink will stick to? Campus republicans? Their entire membership turns over every four years. The GOP? Get real. He was an entertainer, nobody of consequence got in bed with him.
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Re: Nick tilts at CPAC and Milo

Post by Jennifer » 28 Feb 2017, 20:26

Warren wrote:And now he's been given the gong and the hook dragged him off stage. Who exactly do you think his stink will stick to? Campus republicans? Their entire membership turns over every four years. The GOP? Get real. He was an entertainer, nobody of consequence got in bed with him.
CPAC was on the verge of getting into bed with him when that old sex-talk video came to light. And remember -- despite Bill Maher's self-serving claim that he was responsible for Milo's downfall -- it was other Republicans who brought that stupid old video back into the light. And IIRC, even before that, a lot of other conservatives were dismayed by Milo's CPAC invitation. Not all conservatives support the hateful bigotry Milo espoused -- but I agree with Dalmia's implication that not enough conservatives call it out.
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Re: Nick tilts at CPAC and Milo

Post by Warren » 28 Feb 2017, 20:28

Well there you go. The right thinking people of the right won the day. Hooray for the right.
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Re: Nick tilts at CPAC and Milo

Post by Jennifer » 28 Feb 2017, 20:29

Here's the final three paragraphs from Dalmia's piece, which I'll quote rather than bother using my own words to make the same point:
Yiannopoulos dismisses all of this with a flick of his thick artificial-blonde shock, glibly insisting that speech is not violence and most of his followers don't actually believe what they say. They are simply doing it for kicks and to shatter taboos. That's debatable. But what's not is that speech affects culture and culture affects politics. Otherwise, what would be the point of zealously defending free speech? Indeed, as Andrew Breitbart, the late founder of Breitbart, used to say, "politics is downstream from culture." And a culture where threatening minorities and dissenters with imagery from the Holocaust is tolerated will, at minimum, expand the outside limits of the inhumanity that is politically possible.

So why are conservatives cozying up to such hideousness? The best explanation they offer is that inviting someone so beyond the pale will shatter the tight boundaries drawn by political correctness and open the space for a wider airing of ideas. But the problem is that by using a stink bomb like Yiannopoulos they'll make their own ideas malodorous. Who will take conservative praise of civility, tradition, family values, manners, honor, moderation, and dignity seriously if a 31-year-old, out-of-control adolescent is their champion?

Milo Yiannopoulos is like the Joker in Batman. He has turned chaos and nihilism into a business model for notoriety and wealth. Conservatives won't defeat their liberal enemies by making a deal with this devil. Rather, they will validate the liberal critique of the right as a front for bigotry and prejudice, discrediting everything they claim to defend and declaring their own moral bankruptcy.
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Re: Nick tilts at CPAC and Milo

Post by Warren » 28 Feb 2017, 20:32

Jennifer wrote: So why are conservatives cozying up to such hideousness?
WHAT CONSERVATIVES?
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Re: Nick tilts at CPAC and Milo

Post by Jennifer » 28 Feb 2017, 20:34

Warren wrote:Well there you go. The right thinking people of the right won the day.
But for the wrong reasons. It's not Milo's bigoted stylings that prompted CPAC to give him the boot, merely the fact that he spoke approvingly of his own teenage sexual escapades.

Especially now in the age of Trump, I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish by suggesting there's no legitimate reasons to fear that "conservatism" is being badly corrupted by really nasty shit --misogyny, racism and religious bigotry (and not the all-encompassing Ess Jay Doubleyou definitions of those terms either). Milo wasn't accused of racism under false pretenses because he talked about metaphorical "black holes" sucking in tax dollars -- and Trump's explicit slurs about Mexicans and Muslims don't fall into that category either.
WHAT CONSERVATIVES?
Is CPAC some liberal Ess Jay Doubleyou group now? Or college Republicans?
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Re: Nick tilts at CPAC and Milo

Post by Warren » 28 Feb 2017, 20:40

Jennifer wrote:Is CPAC some liberal Ess Jay Doubleyou group now? Or college Republicans?
No one cares. CPAC is just a pep rally it has zero influence on anyone. College Republicans can change their skin overnight, they can't be held accountable for something they did yesterday.

Now I'm going to type slow and use small words for your sake.
Milo is gone. Get over it.
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Re: Nick tilts at CPAC and Milo

Post by Jennifer » 28 Feb 2017, 20:47

Warren wrote:
Jennifer wrote:Is CPAC some liberal Ess Jay Doubleyou group now? Or college Republicans?
No one cares. CPAC is just a pep rally it has zero influence on anyone. College Republicans can change their skin overnight, they can't be held accountable for something they did yesterday.
Nonetheless, I agree with Dalmia's take that it bodes badly for conservatism/the right wing as a whole, that Milo went as far as he did -- and if not for that old sex-talk video would still be an alt-right superstar, writing for Breitbart and the like.
Now I'm going to type slow and use small words for your sake.
Milo is gone. Get over it.
Being rude does not make your arguments more persuasive anymore than posting in giant-font all caps does.
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Re: Nick tilts at CPAC and Milo

Post by Warren » 28 Feb 2017, 21:02

I see that. What are the magic words to get you to stop yammering and repeating your already rebutted points?
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Re: Nick tilts at CPAC and Milo

Post by Jennifer » 28 Feb 2017, 21:20

Warren wrote:I see that. What are the magic words to get you to stop yammering and repeating your already rebutted points?
That is ... not an improvement, politeness-wise. And I don't agree that you "rebutted" my points, since your rebuttals seem to boil down to "Well, Milo's gone now, ergo his behaviors and attitudes which were embraced before then henceforth cease to matter." But I'm not certain what your actual complaint with Dalmia's piece is -- do you disagree with her suggestion that Milo's nastiness, pre-fall from alt-right grace, suggests something disturbing about those who previously embraced it? That it does not give further ammunition to those who like to claim the right wing is primarily a haven for bigotry and prejudice? (Remember, I had similar concerns about the GOP even before Trump became the GOP frontrunner, let alone POTUS -- pretending Kim Davis was some pro-freedom superstar rather than a bigot trying to impose her bigotry on the citizens in her jurisdiction, for example. Not every GOP politico supported her -- but every politico who supported her was in the GOP.)

If it's simply a matter of disliking Dalmia and thus being opposed to anything she writes, then pretend this instead was written by Balko or someone else you admire -- my interest here is in the points that were made, not the identity of the person who made them.
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