All This Impeachment Talk Is Pure Trump Derangement Syndrome

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Mo
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Re: All This Impeachment Talk Is Pure Trump Derangement Synd

Post by Mo » 18 May 2017, 17:24

lunchstealer wrote:Concur, but I don't think impeachment is all that unlikely. There keeps being more 'there' there with this Russia thing. I give it about a 25% chance in the next two years, now that there's a special prosecutor. Regardless of whether there's any way to prove an improper link to Russia, I just don't think Trump has the temperament NOT to try to obstruct that investigation. Once enough of his people are either in jail or flipping on him to stay out, he'd go down, even with a GOP majority.
Also, I think there is enough smoke around corruption, self-enrichment and emoluments to sustain an impeachment. At the end of the day, impeachment is a purely political, rather than a criminal solution. If the House does a 2010 flip and the Dems win the Senate despite significant headwinds, the Rs may fold.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

i believe applebees feels the same way about food, a pyschosexual ballet of pain, fear, and $5.99 appetizers. - dhex

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Mo
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Re: All This Impeachment Talk Is Pure Trump Derangement Synd

Post by Mo » 18 May 2017, 21:58

The dumbest argument against Trump's impeachment is that it subverts "the will of the people". Trump did not win a plurality, therefore his own election subverted the supposed will of the people.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

i believe applebees feels the same way about food, a pyschosexual ballet of pain, fear, and $5.99 appetizers. - dhex

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Aresen
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Re: All This Impeachment Talk Is Pure Trump Derangement Synd

Post by Aresen » 18 May 2017, 22:55

Mo wrote:The dumbest argument against Trump's impeachment is that it subverts "the will of the people". Trump did not win a plurality, therefore his own election subverted the supposed will of the people.
Agree it is a dumb argument, but the Trumpers would feel aggrieved for two generations.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Most people don't realize Stephen King downplayed the horror that is Maine. - Jennifer

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D.A. Ridgely
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Re: All This Impeachment Talk Is Pure Trump Derangement Synd

Post by D.A. Ridgely » 18 May 2017, 23:03

Aresen wrote:
Mo wrote:The dumbest argument against Trump's impeachment is that it subverts "the will of the people". Trump did not win a plurality, therefore his own election subverted the supposed will of the people.
Agree it is a dumb argument, but the Trumpers would feel aggrieved for two generations.
As I never tire of quoting Ambrose Bierce on this point, the President of the United States is "the leading figure in a small group of men of whom—and of whom only—it is positively known that immense numbers of their countrymen did not want any of them for President."

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JD
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Re: All This Impeachment Talk Is Pure Trump Derangement Synd

Post by JD » 19 May 2017, 10:42

Mo wrote:The dumbest argument against Trump's impeachment is that it subverts "the will of the people". Trump did not win a plurality, therefore his own election subverted the supposed will of the people.
I would argue that Trump's election did reflect the will of the people insofar as any of our elections do. I mean, we determine the will of the people by having an election, and for election purposes, Trump = will of the people. It may not be a very good way of measuring it, but it's what we have.

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JasonL
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Re: All This Impeachment Talk Is Pure Trump Derangement Synd

Post by JasonL » 19 May 2017, 10:47

I object to almost all arguments that rely on will of the people in almost all contexts. To my ear it sounds like "will of the fairy farts" or "will of my rectum".

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Re: All This Impeachment Talk Is Pure Trump Derangement Synd

Post by Taktix® » 19 May 2017, 10:49

Trump's ghost writer says his ego will lead him to quit before being impeached, because something something wants to be in control and doesn't want to be a "loser" who got thrown out. I'd say this is in line with his business posture, as reneging on things is a more cowardly approach than a macho one...

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/334 ... oesnt-lose
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Re: All This Impeachment Talk Is Pure Trump Derangement Synd

Post by dhex » 19 May 2017, 10:54

man a president saying fuck it and bouncing would be...amazing?
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Re: All This Impeachment Talk Is Pure Trump Derangement Synd

Post by Aresen » 19 May 2017, 11:04

Taktix® wrote:Trump's ghost writer says his ego will lead him to quit before being impeached, because something something wants to be in control and doesn't want to be a "loser" who got thrown out. I'd say this is in line with his business posture, as reneging on things is a more cowardly approach than a macho one...

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/334 ... oesnt-lose
Obviously, the man has spent more time with the Donald than I ever would like to, but my read on Trump is more that he would prefer to play 'the victim of a Beltway conspiracy' than 'the guy who cut and ran'. (I realize he could try to turn the latter into the former, but 'going down fighting' looks better and is easier to parlay into 'victim' status.)

There is also the matter that there might still be 34 GOP Senators who stay with him. I am sure that Trump would consider avoiding impeachment by one vote a 'YUUGE' victory.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Most people don't realize Stephen King downplayed the horror that is Maine. - Jennifer

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Re: All This Impeachment Talk Is Pure Trump Derangement Synd

Post by thoreau » 19 May 2017, 11:09

JasonL wrote:I object to almost all arguments that rely on will of the people in almost all contexts. To my ear it sounds like "will of the fairy farts" or "will of my rectum".
So "spreading democracy" = "spreading your ass"?

:)
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Re: All This Impeachment Talk Is Pure Trump Derangement Synd

Post by Hugh Akston » 19 May 2017, 11:13

thoreau wrote:
JasonL wrote:I object to almost all arguments that rely on will of the people in almost all contexts. To my ear it sounds like "will of the fairy farts" or "will of my rectum".
So "spreading democracy" = "spreading your ass"?

:)
Well spreading democracy has historically looked an awful lot like taking a shit on other countries.
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Re: All This Impeachment Talk Is Pure Trump Derangement Synd

Post by Warren » 19 May 2017, 11:21

dhex wrote:man a president saying fuck it and bouncing would be...amazing?
I've seen it.
Short term lulz, long term fuuuuu.
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Re: All This Impeachment Talk Is Pure Trump Derangement Synd

Post by Aresen » 19 May 2017, 11:26

Warren wrote:
dhex wrote:man a president saying fuck it and bouncing would be...amazing?
I've seen it.
Short term lulz, long term fuuuuu.
Yes. Despite his disgrace, virtually every 'power' and 'right' claimed by Nixon has been asserted and extended by his successors.
If Trump supporters wanted a tough guy, why did they elect such a whiny bitch? - Mo

Most people don't realize Stephen King downplayed the horror that is Maine. - Jennifer

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Mo
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Re: All This Impeachment Talk Is Pure Trump Derangement Synd

Post by Mo » 19 May 2017, 15:26

JD wrote:
Mo wrote:The dumbest argument against Trump's impeachment is that it subverts "the will of the people". Trump did not win a plurality, therefore his own election subverted the supposed will of the people.
I would argue that Trump's election did reflect the will of the people insofar as any of our elections do. I mean, we determine the will of the people by having an election, and for election purposes, Trump = will of the people. It may not be a very good way of measuring it, but it's what we have.
Not really. You could credibly say that about Obama, who got a straight up majority. It's less applicable to WJC, as he only won pluralities (meaning more voted against him than for him). But DJT won exclusively due to anti-majoritarian rules in the constitution. I'm not questioning the legitimacy or wisdom of that structure, but it's explicitly designed to subvert "the will of the people". Prior to Trump, it was sold as a way to limit populist passions.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

i believe applebees feels the same way about food, a pyschosexual ballet of pain, fear, and $5.99 appetizers. - dhex

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Taktix®
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Re: All This Impeachment Talk Is Pure Trump Derangement Synd

Post by Taktix® » 19 May 2017, 15:30

Also irrelevant. If the elected representatives of "the people" choose to remove DJT, then that is also the will of the people...
"who will quietly mumble for the introverts?" - dhex

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Re: All This Impeachment Talk Is Pure Trump Derangement Synd

Post by lunchstealer » 19 May 2017, 17:42

I'm cool with saying we understand the will of the people if we get to around 95% agreement on an issue that affects 90% of people, and 99.9% agreement on an issue that affects 5%. Otherwise, it's the whim of some people.
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Re: All This Impeachment Talk Is Pure Trump Derangement Synd

Post by Hugh Akston » 19 May 2017, 17:51

We're all silently appending ...who can/bother to vote on the end of 'will of the people' here right?
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Re: All This Impeachment Talk Is Pure Trump Derangement Synd

Post by lunchstealer » 19 May 2017, 18:12

Hugh Akston wrote:We're all silently appending ...who can/bother to vote on the end of 'will of the people' here right?
I'm willing to stipulate that mine are absolute numbers, at least of people who can, if sat down in a room and hand-held through the subject matter, can articulate an opinion of some semi-coherence.
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Re: All This Impeachment Talk Is Pure Trump Derangement Synd

Post by JasonL » 21 May 2017, 08:55

The cereal aisle reflects the will of the people more closely than any political event in history.

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Re: All This Impeachment Talk Is Pure Trump Derangement Synd

Post by fyodor » 21 May 2017, 09:15

Team JD and Taktix but ultimately Aresen.

There would certainly be backlash. It certainly shouldn't be embarked on and effected without fully and overtly legitimate reasons. I.e., for fire, not for smoke or for vendetta or political liability or wotta wacko. But then, the rules kinda make anything otherwise unlikely anyway.
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Re: All This Impeachment Talk Is Pure Trump Derangement Synd

Post by Eric the .5b » 22 May 2017, 12:55

Aresen wrote:
Warren wrote:
dhex wrote:man a president saying fuck it and bouncing would be...amazing?
I've seen it.
Short term lulz, long term fuuuuu.
Yes. Despite his disgrace, virtually every 'power' and 'right' claimed by Nixon has been asserted and extended by his successors.
On the other hand, I'm not aware that Trump has been able to claim any new powers and rights without getting a resounding, "Nope."
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Re: All This Impeachment Talk Is Pure Trump Derangement Synd

Post by Mo » 22 May 2017, 13:10

Eric the .5b wrote:
Aresen wrote:
Warren wrote:
dhex wrote:man a president saying fuck it and bouncing would be...amazing?
I've seen it.
Short term lulz, long term fuuuuu.
Yes. Despite his disgrace, virtually every 'power' and 'right' claimed by Nixon has been asserted and extended by his successors.
On the other hand, I'm not aware that Trump has been able to claim any new powers and rights without getting a resounding, "Nope."
Because he's been so ham handed about it. He's basically drawn a treasure map for future administrations to do the same thing. All they need is the impulse control of an 11 year old and they'll be way ahead of him.
his voice is so soothing, but why do conspiracy nuts always sound like Batman and Robin solving one of Riddler's puzzles out loud? - fod

i believe applebees feels the same way about food, a pyschosexual ballet of pain, fear, and $5.99 appetizers. - dhex

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Taktix®
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Re: All This Impeachment Talk Is Pure Trump Derangement Synd

Post by Taktix® » 25 May 2017, 14:24

Mo wrote:
Eric the .5b wrote:
Aresen wrote:
Warren wrote:
dhex wrote:man a president saying fuck it and bouncing would be...amazing?
I've seen it.
Short term lulz, long term fuuuuu.
Yes. Despite his disgrace, virtually every 'power' and 'right' claimed by Nixon has been asserted and extended by his successors.
On the other hand, I'm not aware that Trump has been able to claim any new powers and rights without getting a resounding, "Nope."
Because he's been so ham handed about it. He's basically drawn a treasure map for future administrations to do the same thing. All they need is the impulse control of an 11 year old and they'll be way ahead of him.
Yes, but he's also shown said map to all those who would oppose these power grabs.

Or, to be less figurative, he has made tangible all the dangers of excessive power that we've been warning could potentially be a problem...
"who will quietly mumble for the introverts?" - dhex

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Re: All This Impeachment Talk Is Pure Trump Derangement Synd

Post by Kolohe » 25 May 2017, 16:16

Taktix[REGISTERED SIGN] wrote:
Mo wrote:
Eric the .5b wrote:
Aresen wrote:
Warren wrote:
dhex wrote:man a president saying fuck it and bouncing would be...amazing?
I've seen it.
Short term lulz, long term fuuuuu.
Yes. Despite his disgrace, virtually every 'power' and 'right' claimed by Nixon has been asserted and extended by his successors.
On the other hand, I'm not aware that Trump has been able to claim any new powers and rights without getting a resounding, "Nope."
Because he's been so ham handed about it. He's basically drawn a treasure map for future administrations to do the same thing. All they need is the impulse control of an 11 year old and they'll be way ahead of him.
Yes, but he's also shown said map to all those who would oppose these power grabs.

Or, to be less figurative, he has made tangible all the dangers of excessive power that we've been warning could potentially be a problem...
And Bush showed what messing around in the Mess of Potamia and the rest of MENA will get you. Didn't deter Obama all that much.
when you wake up as the queen of the n=1 kingdom and mount your steed non sequiturius, do you look out upon all you survey and think “damn, it feels good to be a green idea sleeping furiously?" - dhex

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Warren
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Re: All This Impeachment Talk Is Pure Trump Derangement Synd

Post by Warren » 25 May 2017, 16:24

I don't think any future politician is taking notes on what not to do. By the time all other politicians reaches the point they can run for POTUS as a major party candidate, they have become expert in finding pretexts to justify whatever power they wish to wield. The fact that Trump is sitting in the Oval Office and seemingly has zero such skills, counts in his favor as far as I'm concerned.
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